Hold the Door
A weekly podcast about how underrepresented folks are surviving and thriving in the entertainment industry. Stay connected on Instagram @holdthedoorpod.
The views and opinions expressed are those of the host and guests alone.
Hold the Door
Following Your Instincts with Jocelyn Loren
Welcome to Hold the Door, a podcast where we explore how folks from underrepresented backgrounds have found a way to survive and thrive in the entertainment industry.
For our final episode of season 2, Jocelyn Loren joins the podcast to discuss following your instincts. She shares how this has influenced the many exciting turns in her career path and some advice for how you can follow your instincts to a more fulfilling career of your own.
If you want to keep up with her, you can find her on LinkedIn.
Make sure to subscribe to Hold the Door on your favorite listening platform. You can also get updates on guests, episode releases, and more by following the show on Instagram @holdthedoorpod.
Camille: The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the host and guests alone.
Jocelyn:And all of a sudden those skills will take me into something I never would've guessed is gonna happen.
I think that's what's exciting about life, and that's why my life looks like such a pivot, when in reality I was just enjoying the ride.
I've gotten better at it as I've gotten older and, and moved through my career, is auditing myself for my strengths and weaknesses.
Camille: Hello, welcome to Hold the Door, a podcast where we explore how folks from underrepresented backgrounds have found a way to survive & thrive in the entertainment industry. This week - our final week of season 2 - Jocelyn Loren joins the podcast to discuss trusting your instincts. She shares how this has influenced the many exciting turns in her career path and some advice for how you can follow your instincts to a more fulfilling career of your own. Hope you enjoy.
Jocelyn’s career is proof that a meaningful path isn’t always linear, but it’s always intentional. She has worn many hats—professional dancer and choreographer, military service member, journalist and editor, nonprofit and healthcare leader—and now thrives as a Talent Operations Manager at a FAANG company. Along the way, she earned two master’s degrees (in business and public health) and is currently pursuing a third in clinical psychology.
Her philosophy is simple yet powerful: the destination may shift, but the learning never stops. Each chapter of her journey has been guided by the same question—What do I need to learn next?—a mindset that has allowed her to create her own luck, pivot with confidence, and continually grow into her next chapter.
Jocelyn, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for having me. I'm so excited. I'm excited to have you here. Yeah. So today we are going to talk about following your gut, trusting your instincts. So before we get into all of that. We'll start with the same way I start with every guest, which is how did you get your start in the industry and was entertainment always the plan?
Jocelyn: Was entertainment always the plan? So. Oh, kind of. And so like, yeah the eye roll answer is yes and no, which is just like, such a non-answer. So I fell back into the industry.
Camille: Mm-hmm.
Jocelyn: Um, I started my career in wanting to be and having, having dreams and aspirations to be a dancer and, and a choreographer.
Through high school into my early twenties, I chased that dream. Mm-hmm. And at some point I took a detour. I dunno if it was a detour, but it felt like a. Maybe a left turn into the military. Yeah. I did, uh, I went to college finished college and got a degree in journalism. Mm-hmm. Did journalism for a few years, and then, landed in again by accident healthcare management.
Mm-hmm. I did that for most of my career.
Jocelyn: And then a couple of years ago, right around COVID times, um, just. Random turn of events and suddenly I'm here. And so was, was it a goal to get back into the entertainment industry? No, but at one time it very much was.
Camille: Yeah. You've had so many cool experiences in life that to me, don't always seem like they naturally flow into each other.
Jocelyn: Neither did it to my mom. Yeah. She's like, you're gonna what?
Camille: Yeah. And so even in your bio, like we heard these like. Huge, like career pivots. And so just out of curiosity, yeah.
Camille: What's like the one job you've had that you think your younger self would be most surprised by?
Jocelyn: Um, believe it or not office job, any of them.
Okay. There was a, I distinctly remember this memory I was talking to someone while I was chasing this dream of being like a world class dancer and choreographer.
Camille: Yeah.
Jocelyn: And, I remember telling the person like, I don't know what I'm gonna do in life. If this dream doesn't pop off, I don't know what I'm gonna be, because there's nothing more soul sucking in this world than being in an office looking at the time and just doing that every single day. I mean, I literally dramatically thought like I would rather. Do anything else Yeah. Than an office job. And then like seven years later, I was actually in an office job. And for some reason I had this moment where I was sitting, like in the office.
I was looking at the time going like, oh my gosh, like seven years ago this would've been like, like a horrible, horrible future. But I remember in that moment, I realized I loved my job at the time.
Camille: Mm.
Jocelyn: I loved what I was doing. I loved what I was learning. I loved the team that I, and the organization that I was with.
And the big takeaway I took away from that was like, when we think about the future, when we think about like these goals of what we're supposed to be when we grow up, it's very cliche, right? It's very biased.
Like media tells us any office job is gonna be like soul sucking. It's gonna be terrible.
Yeah. And then what I realized is the reality of that, there's so much variation. There's so much like. A little bit corny, but there is a diversity of what an office job looks like. Different teams, different organizations, different, um, different actual work.
That I try not to pooh-pooh things until I actually explore them and because the reality is usually so much different than when we project and think about in sort of like a, a at an arm's length.
Camille: Yeah. It's a very open-minded approach.
Jocelyn: I try. I try.
Camille: Thank you. Yeah. I love that.
Camille: So the reason that I thought of you when I was thinking about this topic in particular was
Jocelyn: 'cause Jocelyn's sloppy and she just can't decide.
Camille: Absolutely not.
Jocelyn: That's one. It's possible.
Camille: No, it's because we literally random day in the office and I think we both just at the same time, were like, we need to step away from our computers and like went outside for 10 minutes.
Yeah. And then just had a conversation. And you were telling me about. This moment when you realize like, actually I'm not gonna pursue dancing anymore. So would you mind retelling that for the listeners please?
Jocelyn: Yeah. Such a truly, actually a pivotal moment. And so I, I just shared this dramatic story of me sitting there going like, I could never, what am I gonna do with my life?
Like, literally existential, what am I gonna do with my life, um, if not for dance? Mm-hmm. So, um. At the time through my late teens and early twenties, that's what I pursued. Dance. I had to be a professional dancer. I had to be a choreographer. It's, it's just, I saw my life in no other way than that. I saw nothing else and I pursued it and, folks who are familiar with the industry, you know, you're auditioning and then auditions don't pay. Mm-hmm. So you gotta go find ways to get paid. So usually you're a dance teacher, or you're, or you're choreographing for performances for either schools or whatever the case may be. And those pay and those actually pay the bills.
And auditions don't. And auditions is where you network. And so I remember, um, as I pursued and auditioned, I started leaning more toward the things that would pay like classes or teaching classes. Mm-hmm. And over a period of time, and this is a stretch of years chasing this dream, I, uh, I found myself like literally teaching all over Southern California. Trying to get paid. And it came to a point where I'm like, I'm no longer advancing my career. I'm literally just trying to get paid as a dance teacher. I need to do a little bit more auditioning. And so I would audition and I would take classes to self grow and self-learn and, hone my craft as they say.
And there was a point where, you know. In the peak of my passion, when I heard, I loved music. When I heard music and I heard the cadence and I heard the beat, I heard the bass and I heard the sound effects. And I used to love listening to producers and how they use like, voice to emote. Mm-hmm. And how like, and I just had to interpret that through body, right?
Interpret that through, through your movement. And I just would feel every little thing. And so after like just chasing this paycheck for as long as I could and going to classes, trying to find time for myself. At the beginning of classes you would stretch.
Camille: Mm-hmm.
Jocelyn: And you would usually self stretch and someone would play music and, you know, people would be like moving and sort of like kind of shifting and kind of interpreting what they're hearing.
And I remember doing that with such passion for so long, and it came to a point where all of a sudden it was like I was just sitting there. Not moving. And I heard the bass and I heard the rhythm and it just wasn't moving me. And I remember realizing, oh, like I must not feel this song.
And I, again, keep trying to take classes and then you know, the next class I'm like, Ooh, I'm not feeling that song either.
And then I not, I'm not feeling that song and I'm not feeling that song and over like, a stretch of time. Kind of like liking it to breaking up with somebody where you're just like, it's like, is this right? I have like, you know, oh, I'm not feeling today. Yeah. And then finally one day I was sitting there listening to a song and everybody was moving.
And folks, it just like. Ooh. I like the way they interpreted that. I was literally just sitting there, not moving. And it was in that moment I realized I no longer love doing this. This is now a job, and if I'm gonna take a job, is this what I wanna do? And it really set me on a path of reexamining that, reexamining that passion, and I realized this is not what I want to do.
Yeah. Well that was a long story.
Camille: It really wasn't that long. But it's so good because I think. Just speaking from my personal experience, I think you're chasing something for so long. Yeah. You have told everyone you're chasing this thing.
Jocelyn: Yeah. This is what I'm gonna be.
Camille: Yes. You've told yourself that for so long and you've had some success in it, so it's not like.
Oh yeah. Finally you're letting that go, right? Like it's like, no. Yeah, this makes sense. And then
Jocelyn: and that's sometimes that's the problem, right? Yes. It's like you get just enough success where you're just like, it keeps you going. Yes. Keeps, if it fell flat on its face, it's easier.
Camille: Yes. So I love this story because I think it's so interesting and inspiring that you were able to notice that and then pay attention and react to it. Yeah, because I think, that's hard.
Jocelyn: Yeah, for sure.
Camille: Because then it's like, this was my dream and now what's my dream
Jocelyn: be? Because it was your dream, like for so long, and you have to go through that moment of grief.
Camille: Mm-hmm.
Jocelyn: Right. And that's a period of time. Right. It just doesn't happen.
It's just like, it comes over you where it's like, this was my dream and now I'm letting it rest. Yeah. I'm letting it. Fall to the side who am I without this dream? Totally. It's scary. And when I find, when I, when I listen to those little hints of when it was tugging me in directions, it's the hardest part is interpreting what it's telling you.
Camille: Yes.
Jocelyn: But it's there and that it's there. Explore why it's there.
Camille: Yeah. When people are talking about like trusting their instincts or following their gut. It's like their intuition. And so like you were saying, it's there, but you kind of have to figure out like, okay, what is this telling me? How is this what should I do now?
What does it mean? And so I think from the outside looking in, you do seem really in touch with yourself to be able to make these pivots because they're. Especially when it is a big pivot. I think it's scary and especially when the folks around you don't totally understand, then you might not always be getting that support either.
And you just have to be really sure of yourself.
Camille: So I'm curious how you do stay in touch with yourself 'cause you, you mentioned also like when it is there, you have to explore why it's there. So how does, what does that look like to you? Is it like journaling, meditation?
Jocelyn: Yeah. That's a great question. Like from the outside looking, can you see how scared I am all the time?
No. Um, you know, intuition is an interesting thing because like to me an intuition implies that like there's something innate that you like, that you're aware of something. Yeah. That, you know, some of us have something and some of us don't. I'm not sure it's that for me, I think what I am good at, uh, and I've gotten better at it as I've gotten older and, and moved through my career, is auditing myself for my strengths and weaknesses.
Camille: Mm.
Jocelyn: Staying in touch with my strengths and weaknesses. I think that's, I think that's one of those things I have strong is that might, from the outside look like intuition, but in actuality it's like, oh, like I'm really, really, really not good at this thing, and so how do I either get better at it or push it over to the side where I don't have to get good at it. Mm-hmm. How do I keep doing the thing that makes me strong and build that up? And so it's becoming aware of that's helped me. And so I'll give an example. I am, I'm, I, I, I think of myself as a like, a little bit lazy.
I do think like that is shocking to me. Well, so my best friend is just like, you are not lazy at all. But, but like I, the hardest thing I have is like, the hardest thing for me to do is get started on something. I do tend to procrastinate, but it was like, I just need to get started. So how do I facilitate getting started?
Because I will finish. That is my strength. I will finish. And so for me personally, it was like, oh, okay. Like things that have structure and things that set you on a path where you can kind of just like. Start to coast, I mean coast in insofar as you have to finish it. So for me it was like, okay, military.
Right?
Camille: Yeah.
Jocelyn: It was like, if I get into the military, it'll, it, it provides that structure. I, it basically tells me what to do next. Yeah. And I go do the thing. And so military provided that for me. Another big one is for me, is like I continually educate myself.
Camille: Mm-hmm.
Jocelyn: Educational programs, as long as you continue to invest in yourself, you come out the other end grown, bigger.
Like you learn more. And so like educational programs I mentioned that like, you know, have. Obnoxiously too many a master's degrees, but I get started on the thing and I will finish and then I emerge the other end like bigger than I was when I started. And so knowing how to leverage where I'm strong, which is following and finishing.
And then minimizing where I'm weak, where like creating my own path and entrepreneurialship, it's amazing. Entrepreneurship is, is amazing. I think there's a way I can make that work.
Camille: Mm-hmm.
Jocelyn: When I was younger, I was weaker at that. So I put that aside a little bit to follow the things that helped me be strong.
Camille: Yeah, that makes sense.
Camille: So is it, how do you do that evaluation for yourself and know, like, oh, I need structure, but what am I getting structure within? Like, okay, now I'm pursuing this degree. How did you choose that degree? Like how do you get that final answer?
Jocelyn: That, wow that's a good question.
You're throwing me curve balls. 'cause Okay, hold on. Look, I got this.
And I hate,
Camille: I, and I I'll give you the context of Yeah, because what I'm, what I'm asking, uh, the reason I'm asking this is because I think it's really common for folks to get to that point of like, the music isn't really working for me anymore.
Yeah. But I think it's hard to get to that next step of like, and that's important and I should listen to that and react to it. And then once you decide to react to it, then it's like, now what? Like how do I get, find out what to go with next? And I know you said you can just start once you start Yeah.
It works. So what is it kind of
Jocelyn: like, how do you know what to start? Yeah. So it's a really, really, really good question. And we can look back on my career. I could tell you all the turns that I made and it could look flawless.
Camille: Mm. But
Jocelyn: when I was sitting there at that intersection, I was scared out of my mind and I had no idea.
I think what, what I'm good at is like knowing that I tend not to, so this is very, very different for many people, and this worked for some people and it doesn't really leaning into that. Mm-hmm. What works for me is not steering into the day, not steering into the path, but aiming on the horizon. Where is it on the horizon that I want to go?
Because for me, like some people are like, you know, some people interpret in different ways. Maybe it's like live for the day and it's just, but I need to kinda look onto the horizon because when the path starts to turn away from the horizon, it starts to tug on me.
Camille: Mm.
Jocelyn: And starts to pull on me. And so the horizon tells me and when the path starts to move, when I'm starting to feel some discord Yeah.
Or incongruence. And I start to feel that. How do I know what to do? I kind of don't. Right? When I left dance, I didn't know what the heck I was gonna do. So part of that was like, do I wanna do career military? I come from a career military family and I thought that that's what I was supposed to do.
It turns out that like I didn't want to, but everything is a stepping stone into like that next thing. And so the military helped pay for school.
Camille: Mm-hmm.
Jocelyn: Right? Helped pay for, um, for the education. And so if I could go back and change things, maybe I'd get rid of the military because I never did anything with it the rest of my life. But it unlocked the door that got me into school.
And then, so when I was in school, what am I gonna do? I don't know. I had no idea. Right. But I liked writing.
Camille: Yeah.
Jocelyn: So I went down this path of writing and even though I don't continue to write today, it helps me in my ability to communicate, in my ability to write docs, so many docs, right in my ability to to communicate.
Information as succinctly and as powerfully as possible. So everything really was a stepping stone. That's kind of why these look backs on our lives. You can see where the path brought us here.
Camille: Mm-hmm.
Jocelyn: But it's a very, very, very different story when you're sitting on the path looking at all the different directions.
Yes. I think my takeaway would be like, understand what this next move is gonna grow you. You might not stay in the military, but what is it gonna unlock for me?
And then journalism. I might not stay a journalist, although at the time I kind of was thinking it was hard to see beyond journalism.
Camille: Mm-hmm.
Jocelyn: But it's also been able to lock the ability to communicate.
Camille: Yeah.
So when you are sitting at that crossroads like intersection. What is like the internal dialogue you're having with yourself? Like what process do you go through? And I am kind of thinking if we were to get a window and hear what you're saying when you're making these decisions. Yeah. Like what does it usually sound like? Or is there a process?
Jocelyn: If you could hear the internal, internal dialogue it's colorful with anxiety, terrified. Um, no, but so for me, it's never been like I, I've never moved in a direction with tremendous confidence. Mm-hmm. I can look back and say, Hey, that's worked out pretty well. Cool. Right? But I've never been at that crossroads and said, this is the direct, like I've always been at the cross crossroads going. Damn, I really wish I could see what happens tomorrow.
Camille: Yeah.
Jocelyn: It makes it so much easier. Mm-hmm. It really, really, really does. But it was my ability, like what helped me is and what helps me today because I still, I still contend with it. I'll give an example in a second, but, I'm contending with that right now and I wish I had some variables that I'll never know.
Right. Yeah. And that's always the case. But how do you start to move yourself and shape yourself into a direction where that horizon is what you're eventually going to reach? The path might deviate and that's okay, but as long as that horizon is pretty established. I feel like the world will tell me when I'm gone way off and I'm not going the right direction and tug me in back into that direction.
Because through the tension that I'm experiencing. Mm-hmm. Or maybe it winds a little bit Yeah. But it's still going in the right direction. Right. So I'm gonna stick with that. So I'll give an example. Before landing here
Camille: mm-hmm.
Jocelyn: I left my last job without a job prepared.
And so, what I did have though is I started my master's in public health. It was a, it was a, it was a program designed for people that were working full-time, so I could have done both.
Camille: Mm-hmm.
Jocelyn: But I'd started it because I knew that I wanted to move, it was a healthcare organization. I knew I wanted to move or move more towards having like.
Impact across huge communities. So public health is exactly that. Entire communities. And specifically, how do you find disparities that disproportionately impact this group and health disparities that dis disproportionately impact this group versus this group? And how do you solve for that at the federal and policy level?
Mm-hmm. So I knew I wanted to learn that as I was working. And I came to the point at this organization where, frustration in my job no longer felt like frustration. It felt like bodily impact. Mm-hmm. It felt, it felt much more dire. It felt much more it was just different. It wasn't day-to-day frustration.
It was like, this is wrong for me. This is not what I want to do. And I was experiencing like a lot of I was getting promotions, bonuses left and right. I was doing my job well, but the job and the frustration felt deeper existential.
And while I could have also gone to school and done this job full-time and gotten paid relatively well, I sat there and went like, this is just too much conflict, too much incongruence, too much tension in my body, like I actually am gonna leave this job. So I left the job. I just focused on school for about a year or so, and.
Today. Like that was one of the best decisions I've ever made.
Camille: Mm,
Jocelyn: yeah. Yeah. So scary. Yeah. Knowing when you like those, that conflict and that tension is just like frustration and like, it's like, okay, this is at my core. This is, I need to shift. This is, I need to go in a different direction with my career. Like they feel different.
Camille: Yeah. Yeah.
Are you surrounded by other people who also have that flexibility and that thought of like. I am relatively clear on my end goal in general, and it could take a bunch of different paths and look different ways, and in the meantime, I'm always working toward something because I feel like you are always working towards something like you're either pursuing.
Like a hobby or something that could end up turning into a career or they kind of mesh and it's both. So is your community the same way? Or you're like,
Jocelyn: I'd love to talk about community because I think we can't get through this life without like a, like a community that we trust. And community can be your partner.
Community can be your best friend. Your circle of friends. Yeah. Your family, whatever the case is. Like I, I'm a big believer that like life is just a lot harder if we're trying to do this thing alone. Yes. And it's so much more richer and valuable when we have these people that we can trust in. Um, when you ask, do I, am I surrounded by these folks not actually really.
Camille: Mm-hmm.
Jocelyn: And if you wanna just strip it all down, like, I think that degree of my constant preparation, ugh. We're gonna peel all this back. Like, and I just like, we're on the therapy couch. Yeah.
Jocelyn: I, I really actually do think for me it roots in like a lot of trauma
Camille: mm-hmm.
Jocelyn: Of always worried and thinking about that I, that all of it's gonna get taken away.
Camille: Yeah. Right.
Jocelyn: And this is a, a common trauma that we see with folks.
Camille: Yeah.
Jocelyn: For me, it's just constant preparation. I don't know for sure that I'll always have this path. I don't know for sure that the path isn't suddenly gonna go away from me. And so there's, there's some insecurity there.
Camille: Yeah,
Jocelyn: there's some fear there.
There's some anxiety there, and we react to that. And so some folks might be in a position where it's just like, oh, like I'm, predestined to do X or Y or Z. And that's, I love that for them. Yeah. That's amazing.
Camille: And I've been jealous of those people for years.
Jocelyn: You know what, you know, that's, that's amazing.
Right?
I didn't have that.
Camille: Yeah.
Jocelyn: Right. And I don't wanna get all like super, super psychodynamic and like kind of wild on it. But it really comes from, if all of this goes away, I used to, I don't know if I heard this term. But it's just one that resonated with me. I think maybe I came up with it, but I always say like, I always pack my parachute.
Yeah. For good and bad, I'm always packing a parachute,
Camille: right?
Jocelyn: Because when this plan starts to go down, if it starts to go down, at least I have a parachute to pack,
Camille: right? And so
Jocelyn: it's always preparing for the next thing of all of that stuff getting taken away that I now have my parachute, I can land someplace else.
And it seems like a virtue, and it's served me super, super well. And it also comes from a not so virtuous place where I'm constantly thinking I'm gonna lose everything.
Camille: Yeah. Trauma. Yeah. Yeah.
Jocelyn: A lot of us know it,
Camille: but it's, it's relatable for sure. Yeah. Yeah.
But I, I really appreciate that answer and I think, I think it's very real. Great. Yeah.
Camille: So I think, and maybe this is just for me, but I think who you are and what you do often becomes like. Intertwined as we get older and focus on our careers where like, you know, when you're younger and you're still in school mm-hmm.
I feel like a lot of your identity is around, like your hobbies, your sports, your like art and Yeah. Whatever you do. And then once you enter like the workforce, then that's the thing that you introduce yourself with or other folks introduce you with. Yeah, for sure. So knowing that what elements of your personal identity are like the most meaningful to you?
Jocelyn: Personally?
Camille: Yeah. Especially and both. Okay. Is good. We can compare, so if they're different.
Jocelyn: I think they're slightly different. I think they, you know, we show up as different people in different spaces. I, I think for me personally part of my identity that I like that as I get older, I compromise less on is my sense of purpose and why I am here.
I think there was a time in my life where I'd either go with it or tolerate something or, just push through grit, resilience, right? Like that, all those terms that come with like high value and also problems.
Camille: Yes. Trauma, again,
Jocelyn: trauma, right? Yeah. This all comes down to trauma, my friend.
I think for me. I identify closely with that. I wanna be in service to benefit other human beings.
Camille: Mm-hmm.
Jocelyn: Um, and as I get older, I'm no longer able to deviate too far from that center.
Like you and I both work for a FAANG. it's pretty cool. It's pretty, like, it's neat for all sorts of different ways that, you know, society tells you it's neat for all those different ways and I don't know that I could do it today in my, at this point in my career if I didn't believe the work that we are doing.
Serves other people. Right. But like I just wouldn't be able to, and I don't know that any aspect of our jobs would keep me there if it didn't serve.
Camille: Yeah.
Jocelyn: When I believe that we're no longer able to achieve our ultimate goal of what we wanna achieve, um, I just sincerely don't think I'd be able to stick with it.
Camille: Yeah.
Jocelyn: And so at this point in my, my, my career, I think it's my ability to, to stick with my what really, really matters. You know, I touched on this again also, um, the next step of my career journey when I eventually lead corporate America is to then start to help people heal.
We have to make money doing it.
Camille: Yeah.
Jocelyn: But it's to help people heal. And I can't think of a, a greater way, um, than to be more like to, than to facilitate that or help someone through that.
Oh, professionally? I think professionally I think my insatiable curiosity to learn. I just really, really,
Camille: it is insatiable.
Jocelyn: I love learning. I don't know why, like, but here's the thing, right? And I, I hope this for people that like, like to learn or someone that wants to learn you know, wants to, to follow maybe a similar path, but the degree that I like to learn is silly, right? I will I'll have this random thought about like a fly that's buzzing over here in the corner of a window.
Camille: Yeah.
Jocelyn: And I'll be like, I wonder how long flies live. And then I'll just go down this whole path of like how they move, how they navigate the world, how long they live, why they bug you, why they're in your face. And I think that shows that, I think that facilitates my professional work.
Yeah. It also benefits me personally, of course, but, but
Camille: I will also say it benefits the people around you. So having been one of those people
Jocelyn: Oh, thank you. Yeah. That's wonderful to hear that. I, I, that's a definitely a big goal. But yeah. I wanna learn everything. Yeah. I just wanna know everything.
Yeah. It's fun.
Camille: Yeah, I like that. And I, I do wanna say for the listeners, and I'm sure they can hear this come through in your voice, but it's not that annoying. Like I'm a know-it-all and I'll tell you when you're wrong. A very light oh, did you know? Or like, oh, let me give you this little piece of information.
You can take it or leave it. And I think that's like the best way to be.
Jocelyn: I appreciate you, because I've always contending with like, do they wanna know this from me? Like I'm sure they don't. This is like, don't be insufferable. So thank you.
Camille: Yeah. Thank you. Yeah.
Camille: Okay, so what tips do you have for folks who are thinking about making a career pivot that feels risky since it'll take them off whatever path they're currently on.
Jocelyn: Um, they're like
Camille: at that crossroads. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they could stay or they could turn.
Jocelyn: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh wow. This is like the most not helpful answer in my head.
So listen to yourself and trust in yourself. Right? Where you are today, you got there because of like this wonderful sum of who you are. Got you there. Mm-hmm. Right. And your body tells you there's tension here. Like, so it's something's full and you, you can never really maybe know exactly what it's saying.
It doesn't have a voice. Right. But you have to, like, I do think you have to pay attention to that tension, that to, to the tension that exists in you.
And, and I think it sounds so cliche, but I think sometimes we, like we, we, we get lost in like the fear of like, I don't know if I can do it. I don't know if I can, it, it does seem scary 'cause it's completely unknown. But knowing what you're really, really, really strong at you know what I like I will, I'm really, really good at starting things.
So I'm gonna like, I'm gonna get this thing started. I'm gonna start to learn, like lean, lean into that strength, lean into trusting yourself. You know, some people may not be as like, maybe as self-aware. Yeah. Um, I do think it's a, it's a muscle that you can, you can develop.
Yeah. Yeah. And I, I do think, I think it's, it's about auditing yourself for strengths and your weaknesses, right? Listening to those tensions, identifying where you have those gaps. And, you know, again, it sort of comes, kind of comes back to like having your eye on the ultimate horizon. Like, where are those gaps?
This. Attention is starting to pull me in like another direction. Do I have the skills to be able, or do I have, what can I learn today that gets me to that horizon point that I've been like focused on. So like in my case, at some point in the future I wanna become a therapist. Mm-hmm. I want to be able to help people heal.
And so, if I start getting too far off of that path, I know that I'll start to feel attention and like, oh, you know what, like. Maybe I need some business background and like some business education. And it's like I'm feeling that tension because you know, I, i'm doubting myself because of a gap that I have.
Go try and fill that gap. I know it sounds simplistic, but I really think, you know, again it's part of that preparation, again, coming back to preparation opportunity if you feel that gap, your body will tell you that there's something going on. Try and fill that gap. Mm-hmm. Find a way to be able to leverage your strengths and weaknesses to get there and fill it.
And then when that opportunity comes and that turn suddenly has to happen, you're better prepared.
Camille: Yeah, I like that actually, because I think when you are at that crossroads sometimes it's like, I have to all or nothing, do this thing. And I think part of what you're saying is like you don't have to make a huge hard left turn.
Yeah. Yeah. You can just start filling in the gaps on the side and it doesn't mean get a whole new career right now. Yeah. Set yourself up for when you do maybe need to. Yeah. Make that hard pivot.
Jocelyn: And it doesn't have to be like so obvious and it could even just take the form of like a hobby. Like basically when Camille is like world class hosting the Oscars, oh my God.
Like talking to folks into like a microphone because like right now it's like. Even having this conversation with you, I realize, oh, like I'm not super comfortable in front of a microphone. So it's like, if that, if it's gonna facilitate something in my future, like, and I guess this is, I guess a little bit, you asked about a process.
If I thought at some point in the future I would take my clinical psychology to like, like a hosting gig. Yeah. I should start getting my face in front of a microphone.
Camille: Right.
Jocelyn: And so I love that you do this. I love that you do it on the side because. The, in my experience and in my life, if this goes any way, the way my life has, you're not actually gonna have a microphone in your face, right?
You're gonna be hosting some other really interesting, creative way, maybe with a camera in your face or something else, but you're gonna look back and say, having a microphone in my face and starting to figure out how I'm asking those questions like. Literally set me up for this like job that I now have and, and what I can promise you is more often than not, it'll look like nothing you're able to fathom today.
Camille: Mm-hmm.
Jocelyn: I always look back on my life and go, like, if I went to like 30-year-old me, if I went to 32-year-old me, that's all you're gonna get out of me though. It's 31. Right. If I went to 18-year-old me and I told 'em I'm doing this or I've done this, or I'm now this, would you, would that person believe me?
And the answer is almost always no.
So I always have to remember that I'm have no idea what five years is gonna look like.
Camille: Yeah.
Jocelyn: Because I might go in a direction that tells me like, oh, I wanna do this thing. And all of a sudden those skills will take me into something I never would've guessed is gonna happen.
I think that's what's exciting about life, and that's why my life looks like such a pivot, when in reality I was just enjoying the ride.
Camille: Yeah. Yeah. That's good. Thank you.
Jocelyn: Yeah, of course.
Camille: So to conclude,
Jocelyn: yeah,
Camille: the way that I'm concluding all of the episodes this season, if you were currently in kindergarten, what would you bring in for show and tell?
Jocelyn: Oh my gosh. I love this question. I absolutely love this question, and I think, I think what's brilliant about it, and I'm sure maybe that's, you know, why you use it, is, you know, what, what do I want young me, what I want people to know about me? It's curated, right? I have to choose something that's like, oh, do I wanna look humble?
Do I wanna look right? Do I wanna look, successful? Do I wanna and I literally sat with this question for way too long. I'm not gonna lie. And nothing resonated. And finally, but I was like, yeah, this is it. I would bring in a Filipino flag.
Camille: Oh.
Jocelyn: Because I have been on this journey for myself and who I am and what I stand for and what, like what I identify with.
Camille: Yeah.
Jocelyn: And I think nothing captures what I want people to know about me more today than how proud I am to be Filipino culturally.
Camille: I love that. That's really beautiful. Thanks. And it's fun for the kids. Yeah, here's a flag. Love the colors. We could whip it around designs. Yeah. Amazing. Thank you so much for sharing your life with us and your thoughts.
Just speaking for myself, I think it's really helpful, especially to know, like that you were anxious and scared in all of those moments because it doesn't, you can't tell. Wow. And so it's terrified. Yeah. It's like nice to be like, okay, this is normal.
Jocelyn: Yeah. No, for sure. That's always, it's, it's scary when you're staring into the abyss.
Yeah, I mean, I think it's an exercise we could try today, right? It's like you might be faced with a choice, look back. Say at all those crossroads, like, did you know, did you have all the variables that you needed to make a good decision, a confident decision? Probably not. Has it worked out thus far? And I hope for most people, yeah, it's,
Camille: yeah,
Jocelyn: it's been pretty good.
Camille: Yeah. Thank you.
Jocelyn: Thank you for having me.
Camille: I loved having you. I appreciate it. Please come back anytime.
Jocelyn: Of course. Anytime.
Camille: Thanks for listening to my conversation with Jocelyn. If you want to keep up with her, you can find her social media accounts in the show notes.
Thank you so much for joining me for season 2 of Hold the Door. Through each episode, I intended to share the many different approaches my guests have taken toward developing a healthy, sustainable approach to work in the entertainment industry. I hope you were able to find something valuable here that you can incorporate into your own life.
The feed will be quiet for a little bit while I work on more episodes. In the meantime, please subscribe to the show anywhere you get your podcasts and leave a review to let me know what you think. You can also get updates on guests, episode releases, and more by following the show on Instagram @holdthedoorpod.
See you back here soon for season 3!
