Rest Part 3 - Creative Recovery with Dami Kim

Welcome to Hold the Door - an entertainment career advice and networking podcast where host, Camille Wilson, explores how folks from underrepresented backgrounds have found a way to survive and thrive in the entertainment industry.

For our final installment of this season's rest series, we are exploring creative recovery. Dami Kim is here to introduce us to her approach to creative recovery using The Artist’s Way: A Spiritual Path to Higher Creativity by Julia Cameron.

This conversation is for you if:

• You’re not sure you identify as an “artist”
• You feel stuck or unsure about what you want in your life/career
• You’re ready to take your rest practice to the next level

If you want to keep up with Dami, you can find her on LinkedIn and Instagram.

Make sure to subscribe to Hold the Door on your favorite listening platform. You can also get updates on guests, episode releases, and the biweekly newsletter by following the show on TikTok, Instagram, and Substack @holdthedoorpod.

Transcript

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Camille: The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the host and guests alone.

Dami: And so I had this belief of myself that I'm not creative anymore. Mm-hmm. Or maybe I am creative in a business sense, but everything was just like, so business related or like, you know, like transactional.

Camille: Hello, welcome to Hold the Door, a podcast where we explore how folks from underrepresented backgrounds have found a way to survive & thrive in the entertainment industry. For our final installment of the rest series, we are exploring creative recovery. Dami Kim is here to introduce us to her approach to creative recovery using The Artist’s Way: A Spiritual Path to Higher Creativity by Julia Cameron. Hope you enjoy!

Dami is a multi-passionate creative with a diverse background in television production, documentary filmmaking, and children’s media. She began her career at NBCUniversal as West Coast Page then moved on to developing and producing reality programming with the alternative programming team at NBC. After a few years of showcasing inspiring talent and stories on shows like The Voice and America’s Got Talent, her passion for uplifting storytelling led her to support building out a slate of meaningful documentaries at Will Smith’s media company, Westbrook. After a short pause and redirection from the pandemic, Dami found a new interest in kids media, shaping the early experiences of children. She now works at Pinkfong, home of Baby Shark and popular preschool content, and help curate the very first moments of childhood for children worldwide. Dami continues to focus on championing narratives across various creative mediums that inspire and empower the next generation.

Camille: Dami, welcome to the podcast.

Wow. Thanks for having me. Um, lovely bio by the way. 

Dami: Oh, really? Thank you.

Camille: I feel inspired. 

Dami: I was trying to like piece so many of my life directions together and it was a little hard. 

Camille: No, it's perfect. 

Dami: And then also before we start, I just wanted to say I'm. Really proud of you for actualizing your vision. Well, you for the podcast, because I mean, listeners don't know this, but like, we've been discussing podcast ideas since 2020.

God, basically like COVID days, if you remember like when we were just chit chatting.

Camille: I kind of don't remember that. 

Dami: Okay. Because you were like, oh, I, I honestly, I wanna start a podcast or something. Like when we were talking about like activism or like things that are happening in the world and like mental health and things like that.

So I'm just. I'm, I'm really proud. Wow. That like my friend's, like actualizing her positions from the years passed. Thank you. Thank you. And you don't even remember it. I don't. So it was just like in your subconscious. Wow. Thank you. Yeah. Anyways, thanks for introducing me. 

Camille: Thanks for bringing that back. Of course.

Thank you for being here. Yeah. So in the context of this season, you are, or this episode is part of our three part rest series, right. And so this. Episode is on creative recovery. But before we get into the topic, we'll start with. 

Camille: How did you get your start in the industry and was entertainment always the plan?

Dami: Yeah, good question. So how I got into the industry is actually through an internship in college. So I worked at 30 Rock with NBC first as an intern there. And while I was there, I think it was my junior year of college in LA in New York. New York. Okay. Yeah. And my recruiter at the time, I think he picked up on the fact that I was.

Such a generalist, like I didn't really have a niche that I wanted to follow, and he suggested the page program. So that's kind of how I discovered it. And then through there I went through the same type of application process as anyone else, and then decided between LA or New York. And LA's where we met.

Yeah. So I'm happy we chose the right place. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, that's how I got in and I think, so my background actually isn't necessarily like film and media, although I did. I guess I did do like a concentration, like a minor at school. Mm-hmm. With film and media management. 

Camille: Same. Well, not management, but I did, but 

Dami: like film and media, right?

Yeah. And then my background was in business, so during undergrad business, and I thought I was gonna go into consulting and for whatever reason, and I would like to believe it's just the universe working in weird ways. I couldn't land. A business internship for the life of me. 

Camille: Mm-hmm. 

Dami: And everything was just based on entertainment.

And it could have been that I'm from here, LA and proximity, it works out. So I've always kind of been in that world. And then naturally I think it was like, oh, like. I've been doing this, I have interest in it. And I think my vision or purpose at the time was to find a medium that could help or benefit the world in some way.

Mm-hmm. And because media and communication was my strong suit at the time, I just kind of went gung-ho, like pivoted into this. So I can't say this is something that I've always wanted it. Mm-hmm. Although I think looking back, there are some synchronicities like. Coming from an immigrant family background where like, my parents learned English through entertainment.

Right? Yeah. Like they're watching TV shows, like American sitcoms or movies or things like that. Like I think it was always kind of around me and probably naturally it led me here. Yeah. Little breadcrumbs. Yeah. I know. It's, it's cool looking back, but I think at the time I had, I had no idea. I think I was just kind of following wherever the water was flowing.

Camille: Totally. 

Dami: Yeah. And it led 

Camille: you where you needed to be. Exactly. And then I met you. Love that. Thank you. Yeah. 

Camille: My introduction to the Artist's Way, which we'll be talking about right, was through Doechii's Yeah. YouTube series where she's documenting her experience. Right, right. Going through the course 12 week course.

Yeah. And how it helped her get more in touch with her creativity. Yeah. And so it's really cool seeing that, like someone go through it. Mm-hmm. And you kind of like watch them evolve. 

Dami: Yeah. 

Camille: In a weird way. In real time. Yeah. Yeah. And considering like the past year or so that she's had after the release of alligator bites never heal mm-hmm.

It's like clearly something's working. Yeah. So, yeah. First, we'll start off with how you came across. 

Dami: Yeah. 

Camille: Like how did you get introduced to this book? 

Dami: Yeah. Um, so I did hear about. Doechii's YouTube series. Mm-hmm. But technically, I first heard about it during COVID, um, when I was down the rabbit hole on TikTok.

Camille: Yeah. 

Dami: Just like coming across all sorts of like self-help videos, but then also like, you know, like funny dumb videos too. And one of the videos that I came across was supposed to be for people who wanted to be or hone in their creativity. And I at the time, 'cause we have all the time in the world, was trying to figure out okay, like what should be my next hobby so to speak.

But she, now I'm forgetting the creator's name. I wish I can credit her, but she was talking about this book called The Artist Way. Mm-hmm. And how it's been helping her, put herself in front of the mic and in front of the camera and as someone who is a little shy to be in front of the mic and the camera.

Yeah. I took interest in it and then I, I looked into it. I knew about it, but then forgotten about it 'cause I didn't actually take actionable steps, like get the book and like started. 

Camille: Yeah. 

Dami: And so it was always in the back of my mind. And then a couple years back I was going through a little job transition.

So I had an in-between moment and I was really debating with myself whether I wanted to go back into corporate or if I wanted to freelance. And if I were to freelance, where would I be? What would I do? And then I was like, wait. I know about that book. Yeah, I should probably pull it out. And by that time I had gotten the book, but I didn't start it.

Camille: Mm-hmm. 

Dami: Um, and it's funny, the creator also kind of warns, like she warned the viewers about how if you get the book, remember to start the book. Mm-hmm. Because a lot of the times it just ends up being on the bookshelf because it is a daunting journey. Like if you read the intro. It talks about how you need to make a contract, like with yourself.

Like you physically have to sign it in the book too, like date it and say like, oh, I'm committing to finish this book, I'm starting at this date. Mm-hmm. So you can look back on it. And it's, it's a real like mental, physical, spiritual commitment.

And I think it was just daunting to me. Totally. And I didn't start it, especially with life transitions and career transitions.

Yeah. 

Camille: And it's 12 weeks. 

Dami: And it's 12 weeks. Yeah. And it's, it's, if you think about it like a chapter a week, it doesn't seem that long. Mm-hmm. Like a couple pages a day, like you can get through it. Yeah. But, and we'll talk about the nitty gritty stuff that this book brings, but. 

Dami: Just the daunting idea of like having to write three pages, like the moment you wake up, like that's like one of the things you have to do.

Every single day for 12 weeks. And if you're not used to journaling all the time, which I used to do, but then fell off and like, if you're. If you have this like creativity block of like, oh, I can't write anymore as I used to, then it is like a daunting task 

Camille: for sure. 

Dami: So I didn't start it up until this year or end of last year, really.

And. And I know we briefly kind of talked about this, but I keep getting stuck in one place and that's like, I think it's like week four.

So yeah, there's a, there is like this push and pull, like natural resistance. Towards it when you first started. Mm-hmm. And I've heard that there's actually a, like a community built around this book because people struggle so much Mm.

With getting through it. And a lot of people go through the experience of oh my gosh, I could never get through week seven or week five, or whatever it is. Yeah. Um, for me it's a little early once it's week four, so I've been having to like, do it multiple times. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's 

how I got into it.

And 

Camille: yeah. What can you share like a quick synopsis of generally what. The vibe of the book is, and then what it's trying to help the readers accomplish. 

Dami: Yeah. Yeah. So it, the book advertises itself as a spiritual path to a higher creativity. Yeah. 'cause the full title is what the full title is The Artist's Way.

A Spiritual Path to Higher Creativity. Okay. Yes. And it's been by Julia Cameron. By Julia Cameron. I feel like I'm on Audible. Um, and it's, it's actually, this is like. It's a pretty old book. It's been 30 years since it was published. Mm-hmm. So it's been around for a long time and clearly a lot of people have had successes with it, but all it really is, is a 12 week program.

Like I would call it a bootcamp. And not only is it for creatives, but it's honestly for every day like. People like us, like who are in the entertainment industry and may not be directly involved with the creatives, but are creative themselves. Mm-hmm. In, in some way or another. And I think everyone is even if you believe that you're not I think going through this book, you'll find yourself to be one.

Camille: Yeah. 

Dami: And one of the things that, uh. Julia in the book talks about is how a lot of doctors and lawyers have sent her thank you letters because they've actually gone through this process themselves and it's helped them become more committed to their craft, which is, I mean, traditionally it's not a very creative role.

Mm-hmm. But I think it does help you unblock certain limiting beliefs. I think that's what this book really is, is like unblocking your limiting beliefs from years of societal conditioning or Yeah, your programming. Your programming exactly. And like what you grew up to be versus like what you actually want to become.

Yeah, it's, it's a course like I, I definitely would say it's a course rather than just like a self-help book. 

Camille: Yeah, totally. So clearly. It's actually like a lot of work. It is, you know, big commitment. Yeah. 

Camille: Um, and then also in the past when we've talked about like mental health and rest and stuff, we've also said like rest is really like a discipline, like a rest practice.

Mm-hmm. And that you have to be intentional about it and it's not always just like, let me take a nap. 

Dami: Yeah. 

Camille: And so how have you incorporated this book into your, like, rest practice? 

Dami: Yeah, no, that's a really good question. So I. And I think you said you were gonna talk about like different types of rest.

Yeah. All that too, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, even with that, I think finding the right type of rest for you is important. Mm-hmm. Because if you don't, then you're just kind of like, again. You're not replenishing yourself the right way. Yeah. That your body or your mental, like whatever you need. And that kind of ties in with this.

So because it really dives into recovering your true self and kind of peeling back that layers of. Limiting beliefs or what it is that's on top of like all the icky layers on top of you is coming off. 

Camille: Yeah. 

Dami: And because you're, you know yourself a little bit more, you're able to pinpoint exactly what type of rest you need, right?

Mm-hmm. So it's like, oh, like, I mean, I love taking naps. Yeah. 

Camille: Made me too. Yeah. But I'm like, when nothing goes right, go to sleep. Right. Be horizontal. Yeah. 

Dami: But sometimes nap might not be exactly what you need. Maybe it's not that you need more sleep, you need community.

Mm-hmm. Right. Or like you need a creative outlet. Um, maybe you're way more creative than you give yourself credit for and you just need to draw something or like write something down. And I think that's what this book helped me discover is finding the right form of rest. Yeah. Um, and the discipline piece of it is really important. Because I think we talked about this, like how when you're burnt out from work and we're just, you know, laying on the couch all day. Yeah. We're bed rotting, we're staring at the wall, like not doing anything. 

Camille: Mm-hmm. 

Dami: And not being. Creative in the way, in the sense of like the literal sense of creativity, which is like to create or to produce something.

Camille: Mm-hmm. 

Dami: It almost like takes away your energy. 

Camille: Yeah. 

Dami: And I didn't have the right discipline to know that. So I just kept, I think for like in between when I was trying to look for jobs, it would be looking for jobs applying. Then bed, right? Mm-hmm. Like I'm like bed rotting. Yeah. Like looking at other resume videos or like something, right.

And then it would be like rinse and repeat.

Versus. Maybe if I had known that, oh, like going outside for walks and like talking to friends about whatever, you know, it is, and or writing a poem about something. Mm-hmm. About the way that I'm feeling like it would actually replenish my energy.

And then having the discipline to do that on a day-to-day basis to like keep my energy source going. 

Camille: Yeah. Like 

Dami: that would've changed the game. Mm-hmm. For me. 

Camille: Yeah. 

Dami: You know? So I think that's, that's one way that it ties in. But yeah, I, I think discipline is also something that this book kind of inadvertently tries to help you practice.

Mm-hmm. Because there is a part where you do have to write. As I said, three pages a day and the day. Yeah, every day. Yeah. In the morning, like the first thing, it's just like your unconscious and conscious thoughts, like all on paper, like it, it doesn't even have to make sense. Mm-hmm. Like you're not actually journaling about your day.

You're just kind of like stream of consciousness basically. Like that mixed in with yeah. Part of, part of the book also talks about you have to take yourself on a date, like on a weekly basis. So even if it's for 30 minutes, an hour and you're just walking out in the nature or like hiking or you know, walking the dogs or something just for yourself.

It's already creating a sense of discipline. Mm. Where it's like, oh, this time is for myself. Mm-hmm. And like it's boundaries where like separating yourself from work or responsibilities I guess, but in a way you are being still responsible for yourself. 

Camille: Yeah, totally. Um, 

Dami: so that's really helped me also create a safe space where, oh, like this is my form of rest now where.

I can carve out time to do this Totally. And not have to worry about anything else. Yeah. At least for that short amount of time. Yeah. Yeah. 

Camille: That's great. 

Camille: Is there anything in the book so far that you found to be in conflict with your identity or like the way you see yourself in the world? 

Dami: Yeah. I mean, I think one thing going into it, which I think a lot of people probably think about when they first get the book, is that you're not really an artist.

Camille: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I The artist's way. Yeah, 

Dami: the artist's way. Right. So it's like, oh, like I'm not a musical artist where I don't even draw that way. 

Camille: I literally, just before we started recording, I literally said this you, because I was like. It was so cool watching Doechii do it, but I'm like, she's an artist, right?

Like she's putting out music, she's putting on these huge shows, performances. Yeah. She loves fashion. Yeah. Like she, in her videos, she talks about like her painting and stuff. Right. And I'm like, this is kind of unrelatable. Like I love it. Yeah. But I'm like, that's not me. Yeah. And so, yeah, already that felt like a barrier of like, Hmm. I don't know. 

Dami: Yeah. Yeah, so I, I mean, I felt the same way too. 'cause it's, I think when we were little and we're drawing or like writing or whatever, it's like yeah, kids are creative 'cause we're, yeah, we're born that way and we're born to be creative. And our parents thankfully like, pushed us to be that way.

But over the years it's like, 

Camille: yeah, the world like beats that out of you. Yeah. Does 

Dami: in a depressing way, but it really does. And then you get into a corporate world where any job. There's no room for that, and there's no time for that. And it's almost like structured that way where you're not that anymore.

And so I had this belief of myself that I'm not creative anymore. Mm-hmm. Or maybe I am creative in a business sense, but everything was just like, so business related or like, you know, like transactional.

Not just creating art just for art's sake. Yeah. Type thing. And I think that was the biggest belief that surprised me the most, like going into this where she does talk about like, it's not just creatives and artists like getting help from this.

It's literally everyone. And whether you're just a, you know, a desk job person or not, like it's gonna help you in some way. And I've seen that in the ways of like relating back to rest and just having that. Replenished, like the energy replenish, replenished, just from this book. I think that's helped a lot.

But I think getting through that identity part 

Camille: yeah. 

Dami: Is a little difficult. Because you don't really see yourself that way when you're so into corporate. Totally. Yeah. Just day-to-day stuff. 

Camille: Something I've been thinking about a lot too, in listening to other artists of various disciplines speak Yeah.

Is about needing to be bored. Yeah. So that they can create later, or like in their fifth hour of Right me time an idea comes or like something like that. Yeah. Yeah. And I, I think, some of it is very like, oh, I always meditate for 20 minutes or whatever. Mm-hmm. And I think kind of back to the discipline.

I'm like, I don't have that kind of time. Exactly. Like and but it's also discipline in that I actually do have some of that time. Yeah. But I'm using it in different ways and I'm focusing on other things. And so I think it feels daunting to like create that space. 

Dami: Yeah. 

Camille: And um, yeah. And I think this seems like a good way to like get that going kind of forcefully.

Dami: Get yourself. Yeah. Like hold yourself accountable. And that's also another thing that surprised me too, is I mean, we only see the finished products, like from artists themselves, right? Like it just, it looks like a genius thing where it's like, oh wow, like that album's amazing. Or that painting's like crazy.

Like it's. If you really think about it they were able to do that because they have discipline. Like not everyone's a genius in the industry. Yeah. A lot of them are just really hard workers mm-hmm. Who are in the studio, like day in, day out, and just recording, you know, maybe dumb samples. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, like.

Because you are repeating that process over and over again. Like it comes to you. Yeah. Like this genius inkling. Yeah. And then boom, like. Emmy or Grammy, or, you know what I mean? Yeah. So I think that's what this book teaches you is the discipline part where it's like, keep going because like there are gems in what you do, and it doesn't have to be this burst of what you just talked about.

It's like, oh, like I did a 20 minute meditation and all of a sudden it came to me. It most likely is that you're actually doing at it for a really long time. Yeah. And you kept going. 

Camille: Yeah. 

Dami: And then. Your brain just clicked like maybe that, like your 20th poem, probably 1000th one, but that one was the one that clicked for you, and then you were able to get over whatever was holding you back and then.

Flourish, you know? Yeah, totally. And I haven't hit that yet, still obviously with this book, and I don't even know what my goal is with it really. But I think most of the people who are reading it, or Doechii for example, it's like, oh wow. She like got over that hump. 

Camille: Yeah. 

Dami: Of like not knowing anyone in the industry.

Were not having enough resources. Yeah. And then suddenly it's just like, oh, I don't, I don't need those resources. I can do it myself. 

Camille: Yeah. So true. Yeah. And just a little fun tidbit. Yeah. In her anxiety music video. Yeah. It's like the set is similar to the apartment that she had when she was recording some of the Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

YouTube series. So it's cool to see that like full circle, right? Where it's like, yeah, that was when she was working at this. Yeah. And now she's made it, and now it's actually just like a, a throwback. Right, right, right, right. A nod to the past. Yeah. And her process. Yeah. So no, it's awesome.

Yeah. I'm a fan of hers. If you can't tell.

Camille: one thing that I wanted to ask you about, and based on what you're saying about the book, this is probably just oh, once you've pulled this layer off Oh yeah. And like it gets deep. Get rid of this programming. Yeah. This question is answered, but I think I have a tendency to be like, don't look at me until I have something to show you. Or like, I don't want you to know that I'm working on something just in case it doesn't work out.

Yeah. And so. It's like, I'll let you know when there's a finished product. Mm-hmm. And I think sometimes there's like a safe space where, like you were saying in 2020 we were talking about podcasting, but I wasn't like posting that anywhere. Yeah. Like everyone know that I'm working on this.

Yeah. It was like, okay, now there's something you could look at. Yeah. But I also think there's power and benefit in sharing that you're working on something. Yeah. 'cause I think it gives people the freedom to do it themselves. Mm-hmm. It also gives you a little bit of like a time capsule in that you're able to reflect back like, oh yeah, you said you wanted to do something like this.

Yeah. And then we've been talking about Doechii so much and she could have not made those videos because she was like, well if I don't, nothing comes out of this. This is embarrassing. Yeah. And something, something she 

Dami: That's so real. 

Camille: Yeah. And something she does say in those videos is like. I'm doing this record for me.

Yeah. So that I can look back at this when I'm at another barrier or like obstacle later in my career and see, oh, that's what I did before it worked. Mm-hmm. Why don't I just do that again. Mm-hmm. And see how far you've come. Anyway, long preamble. Yeah. But like how, especially I think starting this book and maybe not knowing.

What your end goal is. Yeah. Like how do you kind of tackle that piece of it? 

Dami: Yeah. And like not working towards like a set product, right? Yeah. Like a set goal and 

Camille: or like maybe having something and being like, well, how early do I talk about this? Or do I only talk about it with people I know won't make fun of me.

Yeah. Yeah. 

Dami: Or get on a podcast or that Yeah. Or that. 

Dami: That's a really good question, and I think that's part of the reason why I've been restarting this book over and over again. Mm-hmm.

As you're saying that, I'm like thinking about where I am with this book. Mm-hmm. And. Maybe that's why I'm restarting it because I don't have a set goal.

And not that the book doesn't necessarily say you need to have a goal in order to finish this. Right. The finish. 

Camille: But the part where you said you were getting 

Dami: stuck Right. Is where that's that's where I'm like, huh? Because it's like, why do I keep stopping? What is it? Like, what'd you say? Un So I think, it's in week four and no, spoiler alert. Yeah, I was like, not to put you on blast either. No. Spoiler alert. But yeah, it's week four and week four talks about recovering a sense of integrity and not integrity in the way of like. You know, being like respectful, like, it, it, it talks more about integrity towards your dreams.

So one of the things that they talk about is Buried dreams. And I, I am just realizing that's like where I stop down. Mm-hmm. Like week three, I can't even get past like half of it. So week three I finished through and week three talks about like noticing synchronicities in life and then also like.

Learning how to like, take criticism, like that kind of stuff. Fine, right? Week four comes and I'm like, oh my God, dreams. I had dreams. Like what? Like what? So it's, it's that question. It's like, oh, what do you wanna be when you grow up? 

Camille: Right? 

Dami: And I think when you're a kid, it's either like your parents tell you or like you pick out something from a show that you're watching or a movie or something.

You're like, oh, I wanna be a, a firefighter, or a doctor or like something. In my case it was, this is a personal anecdote, but my case, my family was kind of drilling this idea into my head of becoming an ambassador, like a diplomat. Oh, wow. I've never heard that before. I know. 

Camille: Like from a young, 

Dami: yeah.

Yeah. So even when I was little, I was like, oh, like if someone asked me, I'd be like, oh, I'm gonna be a diplomat. Or like, I wanna work in international relations. Which is like, what? Like you're five. 

Camille: That's very advanced. 

Dami: Yeah. So I've just had that dream. Like even going into college, um, when I was applying, I did, I applied for international relations.

Mixed in with like, I think they had a major called interdisciplinary and you kind of make up your own major. Mm-hmm. Which I thought was cool. And as a kid who's like, oh, I don't know, I don't actually really know what to do. Like, that was perfect. Mm-hmm. Um, and then, yeah, and then I ended up changing my major to just business.

But even just from that, it's like, oh, I've been programmed. Right. Like from a young age to like be like, oh, this is what I'm gonna do. Right. And then I think college is when I really realized. Actually, I don't know about that. Like I don't know about working for the government. Like I don't know if that's really me.

Like I do understand like there are some values that do align with how I am as a person and like I think. Being diplomatic great. But is that really my dream? And so when this book questions like, what are your dreams that are like under the surface like that, so under the surface that you don't even consciously know, I think there's a block there.

Camille: Yeah. 

Dami: That I'm still. Figuring out. And that I was actually, that 

Camille: resonate for me too. Yeah. 

Dami: And that I was hoping to figure out by doing this exercise with this book. 

Camille: Mm-hmm. 

Dami: But when I'm getting to that point, it's like, oh, like this is not, I don't know. Yeah. I can't answer the prompt questions. I can't really think about it.

Like, and one of the things that I think a lot of. Self-help coaches and career coaches tell you is like, you have to follow your passion, right? And it's like, but what if you don't have one? Or if you don't know it, like what your passion is, like what if you wake up and you don't really necessarily think about this one thing in your life that you wanna go after?

Mm-hmm. Like then where do you start? And a lot of them don't have answers. 

Camille: Yes. This okay. Oh my gosh, this is so relatable. Yeah. Because I've had mentors in my life who have been totally willing to help me, but you kind of have to give them something to work with. Of course. Yeah. And so I remember at certain points when it's like, what kind of job do you want?

What does your career look like? My answers are like, I wanna contribute, I wanna be part of a team that I like. Yeah. I want to manage people. Yeah. Because I think I might be good at it. Yeah. But it's like those are such general things, right, that you could have in almost every single job. Yeah. And so it's not that helpful.

And then it's kind of discouraging because. Those things are true. Mm-hmm. But it doesn't give you much direction. And then I feel like I'm wasting their time. Yeah. Because I actually don't really have anything to give them. Yeah. And then I'm like, okay, guess I'll come back once I figure it out and I have yet to figure it out.

And so then I feel like I'm not moving toward anything. Exactly. So 

Dami: it's limbo, it's like, and then the imposter syndrome fix it, and then it's doing the same job all over again. Totally. Yeah. And 

Camille: it's like. Like you were saying with having being a generalist, it's like I feel like I'm good at a lot of things.

Yeah. And so I don't feel necessarily limited by like, oh, I actually can't do that, or I don't want to do that. Yeah, I do usually have a posture of like, I think I could figure it out. Of course. Yeah. But again, not helpful, 

Dami: right? 'cause it's not actually what you want and Right. Like the wanting part is really hard to figure it out.

Yeah. And I'm, I, I guess to your question, my product, my end goal, I guess with this book is that like, it's not necessarily. Art, I guess. I guess I could make it into some art form. Yeah. But I think it really is to just keep on unveiling and revealing my creative self. Yeah. And like my true self, like I almost now equate creativity with being authentic.

Mm. Like I think those two kind of coincide. The same bucket, if not synonymous for me. Mm-hmm. Because you can't create from a place that's not coming from your true heart. Yeah. Like you really can't, and even if you do, you're never going to resonate with what you just created. Mm-hmm. And I now, now that I know that, I think that's why, like hopefully I can get through that chapter.

Yeah. And then keep pushing forward because. Yeah, I think, I think that's why I keep stopping down. And what you said, it's hard because if you always have a goal in mind, but then you're, you're not like enjoying the process of getting there because you don't actually know what you want.

Everything is just gonna feel like you're repeating the same process over and over again. Mm-hmm. And I don't want that. Yeah. No. Who does? No, no one does. And like it's. I think waking up to that is challenging. Mm-hmm. But also jarring also. Yeah. Jarring, unsettling. But hopefully it's like fulfilling. 

Camille: Yeah.

Dami: Um, in the end. 

Camille: Definitely. 

Dami: Yeah. 

Camille: We'll have to come back to you once you've made it through 12 weeks.

Dami: I know, I know. I don't know what I'm 

Camille: gonna do with it, but I'll let you know. Yeah. I'm excited.

Camille: Okay. So what advice do you have for folks who are on their rest journey, but maybe looking to take it to the next level?

Dami: Yeah, I mean, I would say get this book. And I'm not sponsored by Julia Cameron, but I think rest also means getting to know yourself, kind of like what we talked about, like knowing what type of rest you need. I think that in and of itself is taking it to the next level because sleeping, napping, eating healthy, exercise, like all of that matters truly. It really does. But that's that. I almost see it as like. The soil baseline. Yeah. It's like the baseline, like this is like the basic essentials that we should be doing, and then taking it to the next level is like, okay, like what type of rest do you need? Like what does that consist of?

Some people get more energy spending. Time with their friends. Right. And like being outside or being with community. Some people need alone time and to like sit down and journal. Mm-hmm. Or like, I know people, like who really got into cooking lately. Yeah. For from COVID times too, like cooking, is that a form of rest?

Camille: Not for me. 

Dami: Yeah. Well that's, I'm getting there. It's hard, you know, like, what is it? And then there's a really good quote from this book that I resonated with, which was that you resist what you need the most. Woo. Yeah. Let that one sink in. So if you're resisting rest, yeah. Right. If you're only I guess, used to working so much.

You're just like, okay, I can get that hour of sleep tomorrow and that tomorrow becomes like a week later. Or something where , oh, I'll get that alone time or time to myself a month in a month from now when I'm done with this work trip. Or like, I am done with taking the kids to camp or like mm-hmm something, it's always gonna get pushed back. 

Camille: Yeah. 

Dami: And I think that's where the resistance comes from is like, oh, like I don't, I'm not. Creating time for myself or space for myself necessarily. Like it's not so much time, it's genuinely like, and it goes back, it again goes back to discipline, right.

It's the discipline to like protect. Mm-hmm. Like your integrity and creativity. 

Camille: Yeah. And to know yourself well enough that you're like. That's what you need. This is valuable. Yeah. And it should be prioritized. Yeah, 

Dami: exactly. 

Camille: Which I need to work on. 

Dami: I mean, I, I still need to work on it. It's like a never ending journey, I think.

Yeah. But yeah, I think knowing that is taking it to the next level of exactly like this is where I'm at. And I'm holding myself accountable like no one else. Because we can blame it on work and stress and all these other things, but the end of the day, it's your job. Yes. To take care of yourself.

Camille: Yeah. 

Dami: And yeah, looking for tools like this, whether it's therapy, this book, like anything really. Um, I think that's, yeah. Committing to resting is taking it to the next level, I would say. Yeah. No, that's good. And I'm still there. 

Camille: We're working on it. Yeah. You're on the path. You're on the path. I'm the path.

Okay. 

Camille: And then this question I'm asking everyone this season. Oh yeah. So if you were currently in kindergarten, oh my God, what would you bring for show and tell? 

Dami: Oh my God. Yeah, I had to think about this one. I. This is, this is a weird answer. I don't think it's like an actual physical thing.

Okay. So besides from all of this that also came out of COVID was like me super getting into astrology. 

Camille: Mm. 

Dami: But in a way where it's not just like pop fun astrology, like actually like learning how to read charts. 

Camille: Oh wow. 

Dami: And like, yeah, I, like, I went knee deep. So I think my show and tell. Although I don't think kindergartners would be doing this.

It is still like, 

Camille: I mean, maybe in la 

Dami: Yeah, maybe in LA It's to like pick a, pick a friend and like chart. Oh wow. Prep their chart. 

Camille: Oh wow. You put a little class on. 

Dami: Yeah. And like show and tell like their chart and like dissect it together. And it's funny, like I'm saying this as a joke, but in all seriousness, like I do think it's another tool that does help you kind of discover yourself in a way where maybe some areas that you hadn't really put much thought into like your chart can kind of show you. Yeah. So I think it's cool. Like it's another way to just get to know yourself and in that way I think it's a self-help 

Camille: tool. Is there something that was in your chart that you like discovered that you feel comfortable sharing?

Dami: You wanna know something really funny? Yeah, so I think I'm always meant to be a generalist. And I have a lot of emphasis in my chart that points to career as like. One of the things that is really important in my life. Mm-hmm. Like some people I like, it's different Right. Per chart, but like I have a very heavy, heavy focus in an area of my chart where it's just career focused and a part of it is me figuring out exactly what I want to do as like leaving behind my legacy, whether that is actually career or like the reputation or whatever that I'm gonna leave behind in this world. 

Camille: Mm-hmm. 

Dami: There was a heavy, heavy emphasis on that. So it's funny because when I, when I understood that, I was like, I felt validated. 'cause I think 24 7, I just think about like, oh my God, what am I meant to do? What do I wanna do? And I thought I was a weirdo for thinking that way. And everyone else is like, okay, yeah. Like a job is a job. Like, yeah. I never really resonated with that because I made career my whole life. And that's not I, I mean that's not healthy and that's not always the case, but at least seeing it in my chart that was like one of the lessons that I'm gonna have to learn was kind of validating.

Yeah. Yeah. But anyways, and we were talking about like Saturn return and stuff, which is like something that you go through like when you hit 30. 

Camille: Yeah. Hate to see it. 

Dami: Hate to see it. 

Camille: Hate to experience it. Right. 

Dami: So anyways, I think that'll be my show and tell. That, and maybe like building out a recipe book 'cause I've, I've been really trying to get back into cooking. 

Camille: Nice. 

Dami: Yeah. 

Camille: Okay. 

Dami: Drop the 

Camille: link. Your recipe book. Yeah. I need it. Yeah. Oh my gosh. 

Camille: But thank you so much for being on, for sharing so many vulnerable, personal things. I appreciate it. Yeah. And I think definitely hit a lot of like deep things for me.

So I'm like, 

Dami: oh, I'm glad 

Camille: I'm scared of that book, but I am interested. 

Dami: Yeah, we have to order you a couple. 

Camille: We'll get there. But yes, thank you so much for being on, and we'll check back once year at the end of your 12 weeks. Thanks for having me. Of course.

 Thanks for listening to my conversation with Dami. If you want to keep up with her, you can find her social media accounts in the show notes.

Quick side note: After recording this episode, I ordered the book for myself and have been working through it. I can definitely say it’s been really helpful in opening up some doors and opportunities I had originally talked myself out of, but it’s also just been fun to rediscover some things I’ve been neglecting that bring me joy. Highly recommend.

 Please subscribe to the show anywhere you get your podcasts and leave a review to let me know what you think. You can also get updates on guests, episode releases, and more by following the show on Instagram @holdthedoorpod. 

I'll be back next week with an episode exploring showcasing your worth. See you then.