Hold the Door
A weekly podcast about how underrepresented folks are surviving and thriving in the entertainment industry. Stay connected on Instagram @holdthedoorpod.
The views and opinions expressed are those of the host and guests alone.
Hold the Door
Staying Two Steps Ahead with Kamren Fuartado
What does it really take to stay two steps ahead in a fast-moving, high-pressure role, AND make it look effortless?
One of the most common requests in the industry, especially if you’re in a support-type role, is to stay two steps ahead, meaning anticipate potential problems or roadblocks and adjust for them before they happen. Kamren Fuartado joins the pod to discuss how he navigates a role that demands constant readiness without ever letting anyone see him sweat.
If you want to keep up with Kam, you can find him on LinkedIn and Instagram.
Make sure to subscribe to Hold the Door on your favorite listening platform. You can also get updates on guests, episode releases, and more by following the show on Instagram @holdthedoorpod.
Camille: The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the host and guests alone.
Kam: I don't talk, um, unprovoked really, like I like need something or, uh, someone to ask me something to get a particular answer, but,
Camille: which is like not a bad thing. Yeah, because I'll just chat. You don't need to ask me anything.
Hello, welcome to Hold the Door. I’m happy you’re here. One of the most common requests in the industry, especially if you’re in a support-type role, is to stay two steps ahead, meaning anticipate potential problems or roadblocks and adjust for them before they happen. Kamren Fuartado joins the pod to discuss his approach to this strategy and how he’s found success. Hope you enjoy.
Kamren is a proud Angeleno and first-gen Jamaican who juggles a love for TV, events, and dissecting pop culture while always having room for ice cream and horchata. He’s especially drawn to conversations about American inequality across race, gender, sexuality, and class, and loves exploring how those themes show up in the stories we consume. Eclectic, chaotic, and charming, he brings sharp humor, good vibes, and a curious mind to every conversation.
Kam, welcome to the podcast.
Kam: Thanks for having me, Camille.
Camille: Thank you so much for being here. I am excited to talk to you about being two steps ahead. I think this is something probably almost everyone in the industry runs into at some point.
Kam: Totally.
Camille: Especially at those entry level roles where. You are more in like a support role and you're not necessarily the one making the decisions.
Kam: Mm.
Camille: And so the folks who are making the decisions are like, you need to be ahead on these logistics. You kind of need to be. In a way, reading their minds. And so I think when folks get that feedback of, I need you to be more proactive. I need you to think about this. I need you to be ahead of this.
I need you to have done this before I ask. Sometimes it's confusing and complicated and. Hard. 'cause a lot of times they aren't able to explicitly say what that means. They're like, you should know this, or it's something I can't teach. So I'm excited to talk to you about how you were able to master that.
But before we get into that, we'll start with how you got your start in the industry and was entertainment always the plan?
Kam: Okay.
Kam: Um, well, you know, I was born and raised here in Los Angeles, and entertainment, at least in my eyes, has always been like the most prevailing industry within this town. Mm-hmm. And so I saw a lot of Hollywood growing up. Like I remember in elementary school there's this show called Medium. I think some kind of psychic show.
Oh yeah. And they shot a scene in my elementary school. And so from then I saw like what it looks like for, I don't know, my classroom to be changed into a, a set room. And I don't know, seeing the dozens or hundreds of people and the work that it took to make something a production happen. And then I think maybe early in middle school, I went to a taping of True Jackson VP. Oh
Camille: yeah. Keke Palmer.
Kam: Keke Palmer, Nickelodeon. And yeah, that was my first time like seeing something being recorded and I knew that I wanted to live a life like that and to work in a way that was creative, but also productive and, and you know, it really just came back to my, my love of television.
I think growing up watching. I think it was Malcolm in the Middle. That was probably one of my first favorite shows. Yeah. And I knew that that was filmed here in Los Angeles and I think I saw them filming that show one day too. And I was like, I wanna do that. And then I also remember watching Disney Channel and and particular, that's a Raven, there was like a casting call for.
Someone to play the Hall Monitor. Do you remember this?
Camille: Yes. It was a competition.
Kam: Yes, yes. Yeah. And so I was like, I wanna do that. And so I think like a lot of people, like acting was my first passion and idea or like, path to get into Hollywood. Like I wanted to be an actor. So like I tried to audition for that show.
Camille: Yeah.
Kam: And I, I was a child actor. Like I like an Old Navy commercial.
Camille: I didn't know that.
Kam: I did. Yeah. I don't think it never aired nationally.
Camille: Yeah.
Kam: 'Cause they shot it three times with like a black family, Latino family, a white family.
Camille: Yours aired in Inglewood only?
Kam: Yeah, pretty much. The Latino family went national.
Camille: Oh wow.
Kam: Yes. And then the last thing I remember was doing a Save the Children commercial, which is also shot here, not in Africa.
Camille: Oh my gosh.
Kam: Yeah, it's
Camille: interesting.
Kam: We remember me and. A bunch of other black kids were on this really nice like coach bus and they took us out to Lancaster and they imported like a lot of red dirt.
Oh my gosh. And even flies.
Camille: Wow.
Kam: Yeah. And so I was a starving African child. That's my last roll on camera actually. That's wild. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, and actually I think I even around then, I. I broke my arm playing soccer and so I had a cast on and I were afraid, like I wouldn't be able to participate anymore.
But when they saw the cast, they got even more excited.
Camille: Oh my gosh. And they're like,
Kam: let's give you a sling, and like, let's dirty this up and yeah.
Camille: Wow.
Kam: So I came prepared for that raw two steps ahead.
Camille: Oh my gosh. Amazing actually.
Camille: Well, real quick, how did you end up deciding, because early on it sounds like you were interested in being in front of the camera, and so I feel like maybe you still have those aspirations.
But I feel like usually when you talk about it, it's mostly behind the camera stuff, like crafting the story and getting that like making a difference through what you end up seeing at the end of the day. Versus just playing a certain role. So when did you make that transition in, in interest?
Kam: Well, so I went to art school my whole life, and in high school I was a musical theater major. That was like my dream to be on Broadway and. I think through YouTube. I just saw like the work that it took to be a, a working actor and I also had like a certain lifestyle in mind and I, I guess I kind of knew that acting might not get me there and that in combination with having a bit of stage fright, being shy, fear of rejection, all these things.
Fear in high school, just like kind of. I don't know. I just realized that I, maybe I don't really like doing this, and I thought this was the only way to do this. Mm-hmm. And my high school had a, we all had like majors and so I was a musical theater major. And then it was like my junior year there was a producer her son was in my class and she came to speak to the entire school.
'cause she had produced a lot of really cool movies. She was Tim Burton's producing partner, and around this time she had just finished working on a movie called, Crazy Stupid Love. Oh yeah, that was a big one. Exactly. And so she's done all these amazing movies and she was talking about her work as a producer and that kind of, I don't know, triggered a light bulb to go in my head of like, oh, there's like other jobs I can do.
And I think through her I understood what it meant to be a development executive. Mm-hmm. Or a producer. And at the time I was watching Girls on HBO, I was watching Looking, I was watching Watch that show on Showtime in Chicago, shameless. Mm-hmm. And. Before the show starts, like the studio banner would go across and you see HBO and Showtime.
I was like, oh, these are brands that I love and I think that they work with people who are producing shows that I like to watch. Mm-hmm. So maybe that's a, a path for me.
Camille: Yeah.
Kam: And so from then I, I set out to, to be a development executive.
Camille: Nice. Funny you mentioned girls because. When I first saw that show, I was like, wow, they get me same.
I was like, I feel so seen.
Kam: Exactly. Same
Camille: by these like white girls. Exactly. Yeah. And I was like, this is the first, the first time at least I remember. It was just very fitting with where I was in my life at that time. I'm like an English major, right, who's trying to be taken seriously. Exactly. And hasn't really figured out what a job looks like.
Yeah. And so, yeah, I, I didn't have the exact same experience of being like, now I'll be a creative exec, but I was like, wow. I was like, wow, this show gets me and I feel seen and now I feel a little bit silly, but. That's kind of what happens when there isn't that much to work with.
Kam: Yeah. I mean, I think it just speaks to representation.
I think you and I both felt represented in some type of way.
Camille: Yeah.
Kam: Like I, too was not a, a white woman in New York City, but like, I felt so seen by Lena Dunham.
Camille: Right.
Kam: And I was like, they're talking about things I talk about, and I think this is funny too, and it's so hard. So yeah.
Camille: Yeah. I realized we probably should define what, being two steps ahead means, at least for you.
So how would you describe that?
Kam: Well. I know one of the questions was how does being two steps ahead differ from doing your best? And so I kind of differentiated it because I think doing your best is a bit more of being reactive. Like to me, I think of. Responding well to what's in front of you. Whereas being two steps ahead is a bit more strategic.
It's knowing what might be around the corner and being prepared for it. And I think the word that encompasses that is anticipation. Mm. What might happen and acting like it already has happened.
Camille: Yeah. Okay. That is a good definition. I think so during, when we did our prep call.
Camille: We spoke about how you work in a no mistakes culture and you know, there's not a lot of space for you to make, have an accident or be like, oh, I'm sorry, and then move on.
It always kind of ends up being a big deal, even when it is something small, like getting a lunch order wrong or like booking someone's flight incorrectly. Sometimes those get the same reactions. How would you describe your approach to work in this environment? Actually, one more thing too in, when I was explaining the two steps ahead, I specifically said this happens a lot in entry level positions, which is true, but I also wanna acknowledge that totally.
There are, executive assistants and stuff who that is their career and it really is an art and a skill to be good and to support these super high level execs. And they're treated more, their role is more of like chief of staff.
Than. Just an assistant. I think sometimes the title doesn't always match what they do, but
Kam: Totally
Camille: just wanted to acknowledge I started off with entry level and that's not always what this looks like.
Kam: Totally. I mean, I think everyone on, on every level has a boss to answer to you, and I think just knowing what your boss is looking for or the way that your boss works, and I think just having an answer puts anyone ahead.
But when it comes to no mistakes, you know, I think it's a, a ridiculous notion like, we're human, everyone makes mistakes. I've made at least three today and, you know, and it's, everyone makes mistakes. But I think within that, like I have to acknowledge the pressure, no mistake sounds glamorous until you realize that it's the high stakes and the high pressure and the low room for error that people kind of agree to.
I also think that
I sometimes feel like I can, like I reject the word proactive. Because to me it comes off as, it's vague and it's used in a way to sometimes gold people for not being able to mind read.
Camille: Yeah.
Kam: You know? For sure.
So I think it just goes back to. Being prepared. Having clarity of what is expected of you and knowing how to keep the end and running without drawing too much attention to yourself.
Camille: Yeah, that makes sense. I guess like that essentially means you have a really good understanding of what your role is and what is your responsibility, and then you do it kind of quietly.
Kam: Exactly. Just making sure that it gets done, and I mean, sometimes you make a fuss about it so people know like how hard you're working and all that it entails to make your work seem seamless.
Mm-hmm. Without. Becoming a burden or feeling like a, a weight on your team or two like your boss.
Camille: Yeah, that makes sense. And then also when we talked earlier, you mentioned that you're more type B by nature but your work in the industry requires you to be more type A really. So how did you learn to operate in a way that's really counter to your nature and your natural instincts?
Kam: I mean, I, I, it started with having to acknowledge the tension between the two because yes, we work in a type A industry. I have worked at type A companies on extremely type A teams. Mm-hmm. And I've always admired people that can work like that. Like I think of Capricorns, just people who are very punctual and, you know, extreme attention to detail.
And yeah, I would recognize myself as, as type B. Like I, I move a bit slower, I feel things out. I, I'm super reflective and I leave time to make decisions. And that doesn't always fly in entertainment. Yeah. Because everything moves so fast. Right. So I had to learn how to perform type A behaviors, which.
To me looked like building structure. Whether it's like a routine, yeah. A template or any kind of system that lets you improvise without panicking.
Camille: Hmm. I like that. Improvise without panicking.
Kam: Yeah.
Camille: That's really good. And I honestly think that can be applied to. Almost anything that you're trying to learn or get yourself comfortable with. It's like start with the structure and kind of fake it till you make it. Did it. Speaking of faking it till you make it, did it ever become natural or you just got really good at the templates?
Kam: If it were something that I know that would come up again. I think that's when the flag would go off in my head, like, okay, next time this comes up, this is how I could do that thing and this is how I can tighten it. Make it better, faster, quicker, stronger.
Camille: Yeah, okay That makes sense.
Camille: Have you noticed that your identity plays a role in how you or your work are perceived?
Kam: Hmm.
Well, I mean, first of all, absolutely, but also subtly, I think. And almost every team or company that I've worked at, I have been the only black and gay man across the board. Mm-hmm. At least within like certain organizations. Mm-hmm. Um, or like my immediate teams, definitely like the bigger companies I've worked at.
Of course, but on my team or within the organization or that department, it really was just me.
And I think sometimes that led me to feel like I was a personality hire. Oof.
And I think someone coming from, you know where I come from?
Camille: Also I realize this is, you're kind of guessing on both sides of this because you can't really know how you in your work are being proceed.
Besides what you're given, and obviously people aren't necessarily saying exactly what they think or whatever, or maybe you hear a later version of it. And also it's always a guess as to why and if it does actually have to do with your identity or not. So just kind of from your perspective, if there's anything that stands out as feeling like maybe when you can compare it to someone else and notice, that felt like we got a different reaction.
Kam: Oh, totally. I mean, well, first of all, I feel from my experience in the places that I work, particularly on the teams, the departments that I've been involved with, my identity is very singular. So I don't feel like there aren't very many gay black men that I felt like were.
I could look up to or compare myself to that, like have had similar results. But I, when, when I look outside of my identity and compare myself to someone who comes from somewhere else, or particularly someone who comes from a family that has been involved in the industry or has worked in business in a way that like their parents know the language.
Mm-hmm. So then. By nature, like the kids know the language or a coach by the parents, like understand the business. Mm-hmm. I think those folks have been able to progress faster and not even just being like, you know, working skillset, but office banter. Like knowing how to make jokes and to move along conversations within a professional setting.
That's a skill. Yeah. And I think that's something that wasn't. What's the word? It wasn't natural to my identity or like the environment that I came from. And I think also being black in these corporate spaces, I have noticed a pattern like a lot of the other people who identify as black in these spaces come from a certain background. Mm-hmm. Whether it's. Going to like an Ivy League school or myself going to like a boarding school. Mm-hmm. I think those environments kind of shape and nurture the ideals of what it takes to be successful because it's often those people from those similar backgrounds who are leaders within the company.
Camille: Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense on both sides. 'cause I think. When folks are looking for you and they can point out like, oh, we went to the same school. Or, I recognize that name. That is appealing but then I think also once you get in, you are so used to being in spaces that are like very white.
Totally. And kind of the dominant culture in a way.
Kam: Mm-hmm.
Camille: And so then you're also able to like work within that space. So you're kind of invited in because they recognize something and then you're like, I know how to behave here. Mm-hmm.
Kam: And I,
Camille: I don't wanna say that's the only way to be successful at all, because I think some folks are able to be really authentic and not like code switch and fall into the i'm a totally different person at work than I am at home.
Kam: Totally. Yeah.
Camille: But I do think there is a level of like making yourself approachable. Yeah. And acceptable that is in the sauce. Totally. Yeah.
Kam: And I'm glad you said, what'd you say? You just said, damn, I lost it.
You said code switching.
Camille: Oh
Kam: yes. Is that something that you feel like you do?
Camille: Um, yeah, I think that, I don't feel like I'm code switching in that I'm a totally different person when I walk through the doors at work and when I leave. But I do notice, like even in certain friend groups, I will speak differently or like make different jokes.
Kam: Mm-hmm. Um,
Camille: because I know some folks will get it and think it's funny and another, they'll make it , it'll make them uncomfortable.
Kam: Totally.
Camille: And so, um, I think what's hard is a lot of the way that I define code switching is, I think of it as like there's a baseline. Mm-hmm. And then you move like mm-hmm.
One way or the other. And for me, because I feel like I. I've been code switching since I was born.
Kam: Mm-hmm.
Camille: I feel like I don't have a baseline.
Kam: Yeah.
Camille: And so it doesn't always feel like I'm code switching, but I do notice like I am doing it. Yeah. But I don't feel like there's like a, I don't feel like I have a really strong grip on like without anything, this is me, this is how I am.
Kam: Yeah. And I mean, I feel similarly, like I don't think I code switch. I think that has helped me maybe professionally like this is just how I talk and Sure, like I'm more comfortable in familiar settings, but I feel like this is just me. I do feel like I wish I could code switch better because when it comes to. Not being in a professional setting when I'm just like around, just in a room with like black people that I don't know. Yeah. I start to feel insecure about the way I sound and the way that I talk. And I wish that, ooh, I don't want this to be problematic, but I just, I just wish that I was more in touch with how people talk and sound, even in my own family. Yeah. Like, I feel like the block sheep because. Of the spaces that I've been in and the way that I've worked or the places I've worked, it has like shaped my mouth to perform in this way. Yeah. To where I don't feel like I can turn it off.
Camille: Totally. Yeah. I, that's very relatable.
Camille: 'cause I think that kind of I, for, even though half of my family is black, I've always been like, oh, I'm not black enough. And, um. Because I feel like there's pieces of the culture that I'm missing or I wasn't paying attention when it happened, or my family wasn't, you know, invested in this moment in culture
Kam: Yeah.
Camille: Of certain things. And so I don't have that shared context. And and like, I think people, like kids, you know, like they pick up on stuff so. In elementary school, like people call me an Oreo, like
Kam: same
Camille: black on the outside white on the inside.
Kam: Absolutely.
Camille: And I was like, yeah, that's correct. Like, I was like, I don't have any proof to
Kam: Yeah.
Camille: Not be that. But I think really, when I first met you Kiara and Bry, I feel like that was the first time that I was like, I'm black enough. Like how I am Yes, same honestly. Yeah, because I think, I felt like you all were very like. Black. Yeah. Like authentically black. Yeah. In like pro-black.
That weird way to explain that. Yeah. But also very not stereotypical in a way. Like, I'm like
Kam: alternative black.
Camille: Yeah. I was like, everyone has their own little thing that,
Kam: yeah.
Camille: Honestly feels very like. A deep part of like white culture in a way.
Kam: Sure.
Camille: Each of us have that. And so I think being around you and being like I feel like they're black.
Yeah. And then being able to kind of have that reflected back at me. Oh yeah. So I definitely understand that.
And I think I can only code switch so far. Right? So like, if I'm in a space of like all black people. There is still a level where I'm like, I can't match this. Mm-hmm. But I can get to a certain level where it's like, okay, we're all fine.
Yeah. But, I'm so scared to play that game. Like, what is it? Like lose your black card or something. I'm like,
Kam: oh, black card revoked.
Camille: I will fail.
Kam: Yeah.
Camille: The Immediately
Kam: you'd be surprised, like I see a lot of those like TikTok videos of all these acronyms. Yeah. And it's like. Black Proverbs. Yeah. And I feel like I,
Camille: I do not do well at those.
Kam: I do pretty well at those. Say you do not do well at those. Say, but I mean it then I think it begs the question like, what does it even mean to be black? Because I know, like you said, it's relatable, not, we're not the only ones with this experience. It's almost as if being black is having to constantly prove that you are black.
Mm-hmm. Not just to non-black people, but especially to black people. Yeah. And. There's a whole game about it now where like even me with two black parents from Jamaica, from, well, my mom's side is American, third generation, California, but Louisiana before that. Somehow I don't feel black enough.
Yeah.
Camille: Yeah.
Kam: And so when it comes to like the work culture and professionalism, it, it feels like it can be an advantage, but then sometimes it can turn into a, a burden.
Camille: Yeah, for sure.
Kam: I remember I was working on a TV show and we were reviewing an episode and everyone on my team was white and this particular show.
The main character was going through a problem and a literal, magical black negro comes on a screen and like fixes it all and like shows them the way. And I was like, oh, that's the magical black negro. Like that's a, A
Camille: archetype.
Kam: An archetype, A trope.
Camille: Yeah. And
Kam: everyone was like, what? Explain more? And I like told them about it, but then, you know, my boss took the note.
I think she went to go talk to a few people, like the editors, but she didn't feel like she had the language to explain it, so then she looped me into the call to where I'm explaining it. I think in that moment it became a burden. Yeah, because I'm recognizing something within the work, but my own boss can't speak to, and instead of them learning about it and being able to speak on it for our own self, it became my burden to like.
Speak on behalf of all black people to like not have this character in such a trophy situation.
Camille: Yeah. And with the power dynamic of that, you can't be like, actually that's not my job. Yeah. I was just doing a little flag.
Kam: Yeah. I think she just wanted me to say negro, honestly.
Camille: Like I'm not able to say this.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh. Yeah. That is. Real and very awkward.
Kam: Totally.
Camille: And a lot of times, the aftermath of that is one, well, okay, speaking for myself, if I had been in that situation one, I'd be like, oh my gosh, I got looped into this call that I usually wouldn't be in, and I got to speak and they took me seriously.
Hmm. So I'd be happy about that.
Kam: Yeah.
Camille: But then I would also be like, I feel uncomfortable that happened and I don't really know if I can say anything about it because I don't know how they're gonna react. I don't know. I might not know exactly what made me uncomfortable, 'cause I'd be like, well, I felt fine bringing it up in the meeting.
And I did appreciate you kind of giving me credit for flagging this by letting me explain it on the call. But also. Why am I the only one who knows this? And is this gonna be now my responsibility going forward? You know?
Kam: Yeah. And it, it,
Camille: and do I like that that's my responsibility. 'cause is this giving me a leg up or is this like making it weird? So it just gets complicated? And then I probably wouldn't have said anything.
Kam: Yeah. I mean, at some point, not just in that situation, but in a few different situations, I felt like. Because of my experiences and growing up with, I'm doing air quote woke culture. Mm-hmm. I became like the woke police on the team.
Mm-hmm. Or if something was like iffy or. Could be seen as insensitive. Like I was the taste tester for that.
Camille: Yeah.
Kam: Which became a burden
Camille: Totally.
Kam: In a lot of ways. 'cause like, wait, no one else is having to do this and I'm not Yeah. Getting paid extra for this consult. Exactly. It's literally not your job.
Yeah. And that way, like I had the skill or this insight that no one else on my team had. Yeah. Yeah. And back to the situation of that specific TV show. The scene was shot. They were in post. So now that I brought it up, they're like, well, we already shot it. We've spent the millions of dollars in time.
Like we can't redo it. Yeah. And so now I felt I was just raising a flag that couldn't, that nobody could pull down. Yeah.
Camille: Yeah. That's complicated. That's a lot.
Kam: Yeah. Now I'm just like a whistleblower on the inside. Yeah. And everyone's like, now I'm a problem top,
Camille: you know? Right. And then if they get bad pressed about it.
It falls back on you in a way.
Kam: Yeah.
Camille: Oh my goodness. Okay. The joys of corporate life.
Camille: Are there any TV or film characters who you feel embody your version of staying two steps ahead or that you admire for having a different approach than you do?
Kam: I mean, my immediate answer, and if you've asked this before, I'm sure a lot of people would say, Olivia Pope.
Camille: I was literally thinking her.
Kam: Okay. Yeah.
Camille: But I'm like, is she two steps? Because she's always in a crisis, reacting to a crisis. So like she, it's handled like she handles everything. She's the handle. Yeah. And I guess. She's two steps ahead in the reaction. Once she's in it, then she's covering all these extra things.
Kam: Exactly.
Camille: And she is two steps ahead in that whatever pops up, she's ready for it already for it to be handled. But yeah, that is who I also thought of.
Kam: So I mean, yes, I think.
Camille: And, uh, for the listeners, Olivia Pope is played by Kerry Washington and is the lead of Shonda Rhimes TV show Scandal
Kam: on ABC
Camille: on ABC
Kam: But a more recent 'cause I, I say Olivia Pope, but I, I can't remember.
I have like the worst recall. I can't think of a particular situation in which, or at least where I can outline all the stuff that she took ahead to be on something, but
Camille: Well, they don't really show you. Yeah. Yeah.
Kam: I mean, it's tv, right? We're not in the strategy room with her all the time. Right. But there's a show that is, I'm doing Air quote and unscripted on HBO called The Rehearsal.
Oh yeah. With Nathan Fielder. Yeah. And I think he uses his creativity and storytelling and filmmaking to work through a lot of his own anxiety.
And in that show, have you watched it?
Camille: I've only seen the first episode.
Kam: Okay. That's enough. I think that the first episode, you can see that like he is someone who is thinking of all the steps or different ways a conversation or situation can turn and to prepare himself for it.
He prepares. Mm-hmm. Like any answer. So I think Nathan in the rehearsal is also a, an answer of mine.
Camille: Yeah, those are both good because I feel like those are both kind of on the opposite ends of the spectrum, right? Yeah. Olivia Pope is so buttoned up and you really will not see her sweat.
Kam: Yeah.
Camille: Even though half the show is us kind of like seeing her sweat behind the scenes, but. In public, you'll never see her sweat and she's the best at what she does. And then for the rehearsal, I feel like this guy is like so deeply anxious and uncomfortable and makes you feel that as well.
Kam: Mm-hmm.
Camille: But also both are playing through all the possible scenarios.
Exactly. So Nice. That was very well-rounded.
Kam: Yay.
Camille: to close out, what advice do you have for folks who are in a role that requires them to always be two steps ahead? If you have anything in addition to the templates 'cause I thought that was really good.
Kam: I would say building soft power is important.
Stay curious, take notes. Observe how things work before you try and change them. Mm. You know, they always say, I, whenever we have like a new leader, there's like a term that they say, uh, where they, you know, they're, they look under the hood to see how the engine's running before they make any big changes.
So I think that's part of it. One thing I've learned in recent years is to protect your energy. Like you have to know when to show up and when to blend in. And then again, like building those internal systems so you don't have to like turn it on every day. Yeah. And then lastly, I would say to let the work speak, but keep your receipts.
Mm. Don't overshare, but like, know your value. Yeah. And let people be surprised by how good you are.
Camille: Mm. Okay. Wait, say more about the surprise.
Kam: Like an example?
Camille: Yeah. Or like, does that mean they're surprised because they didn't know how much work you were doing behind the scenes or?
Kam: I think, well, thinking back to like recent work situations, I mean, I have never called myself a foodie, but I think a lot of my friends that are close to me know that like, I like to dine, and so, you know, I don't post about it. I don't write about it, but I know where to go or where to send someone. And we had a last minute dinner come up on the team that I had to prepare. There were folks coming from Asia and the people coming from Latin America. And I just so happened to know of a new restaurant that had like a private space that fit all of us.
Um, it had a menu that was coincidentally in touch with the theme of like our meetings and the tiles that we're working on. And so I was able, and since I'd been there, I kind of knew the people and so I was able to call and. Get the reservation and like have a very intimate, special experience arranged.
Mm-hmm. And I think that's something I did quietly. I, yeah. You know, I, I didn't go around saying, oh my God, I knew all the best restaurants. Like, oh, like I had this amazing dinner last night. I think just like,
Camille: like making things
Kam: feel natural and seamless and sometimes it just is. Yeah.
Camille: Yeah. Kind of like not showing all your cards.
Kam: Exactly. Yeah.
Camille: And all of your skills up front, gatekeeping. Yeah.
Kam: And honestly, I think gatekeeping is a part of the job as an executive assistant. And that's true. Not like culturally or like in society, but like for your boss. Like Yeah. Knowing who can come in, protecting their calendar, who gets time.
Yeah. Protecting their energy and then protecting your own.
Camille: Yeah. Okay. That's good. Thank you.
Final question that everyone gets at the end of their episode this season. If you were currently in kindergarten, what would you bring for show and tell?
Kam: These are things that I have now.
Camille: Or hypothetical or just, just like if you were to bring something in.
Kam: Ooh. I did sue this question, but I did not prepare for it, so I'm gonna improvise.
Camille: Please do.
Kam: I mean, right now I'm really into shoes.
Camille: Okay. I did see you have new shoes today.
Kam: I do. I'm glad you know I was gonna ask you about this, 'cause actually they're my first time wearing them and. I've been really insecure about it.
Yeah. 'cause I, I don't feel like it's typically my style. Hey for listeners, I'm wearing Our Legacy Sweetheart shoes. They are essentially ballet slippers. And these are made from black swan leather. I actually watched Black Swan last night to celebrate Disney shoes and I wore them the whole time kicking them in the air.
But I wasn't gonna mention those.
And then one, one of these shoes I would bring,
I need a second. I'm like trying to think of all the stuff that I have.
Camille: I know. One year, I don't know if I was in kindergarten, but I brought my little sister Aw. As like my show and tell. Yeah. Yeah. That's cute. Yeah. So then, and she had like a little bit of like a belly. Yeah. Because she was like one or two. Yeah. And so kids like went around like rubbing her belly.
Kam: Aw,
Camille: I know. Which now I'm like that's weird.
Kam: That's so cute. You probably loved it.
Camille: I hope so. Kids are funny. Hopefully it didn't scar her.
Kam: I think my last show and tell I might have been kindergarten, I don't know, but I, I do remember my mom bringing my rabbit. I had a rabbit named Bugsy and my mom would, in the time she was in design school for fashion, and she was turning a lot of my old pairs of jeans into purses.
Mm-hmm. And you know, imagine like a pair of jeans cut pretty much like at the pocket and like sewn together at the bottom. And like a rabbit inside. And so that was pretty cool.
Camille: Oh wow.
Kam: But today
Camille: that could have gone morbid, like.
Kam: Oh
Camille: no. Yeah. Turning your rabbit
Kam: into the bag. It's like, yeah.
And she
Camille: live demonstration.
Kam: Yeah. She lined the bag with my rabbit skin.
Honestly, I love my Vitamix. Mm. It's probably an appliance that I use every day. I think that it blends to such a fine quality that it impresses me consistently. And so maybe I would bring that.
Camille: Yeah. If it were actually for kids and you gave 'em a little smoothie after, they'd love it
Kam: right then. It's interactive.
Yeah. It's an experience. It's brand marketing.
Camille: They're, yeah. Their parents are buying that later. Exactly.
Kam: They're all gonna ask it for Christmas like.
Camille: Can you imagine?
Lovely. Thank you.
Kam: Yeah, thank you for having me.
Camille: Of course. Come back anytime.
Thanks for listening to my conversation with Kam. If you want to keep up with him, you can find his social media accounts in the show notes.
Please subscribe to the show anywhere you get your podcasts and leave a review to let me know what you think. You can also get updates on guests, episode releases, and more by following the show on Instagram @holdthedoorpod.
I'll be back next week with our final episode of the 3-part rest series where we’ll explore creative recovery. See you then.
