Leaving the Industry with Evan Kim

This week, Evan Kim joins to discuss leaving the entertainment industry. You'll hear some of the pros and cons of seeing the industry with fresh eyes from the outside looking in, how Evan is still finding creative fulfillment in the hospitality industry, and what might bring him back to entertainment in the future.

If you want to stay connected with Evan, you can find him on Instagram @evankimevankim.

And thank you for your patience with the unexpected break between episodes!

Make sure to subscribe to Hold the Door on your favorite listening platform. You can also get updates on guests, episode releases, and more by following the show on Instagram @holdthedoorpod.

Transcript

Evan: I think at the time, like, I remember everyone in my mailroom class was getting jobs. And I was like, why is it, I'm not getting, why am I not getting a job? 

oh my god, I lost my train of thought, but okay, no, I'm good, sorry. Um, wait, this is, you can like cut this part out. 

But ultimately everyone is on this kind of, um, journey to make the creative product as beautiful as possible.

Um, in every sense of that word, I think so, um, and I feel sort of similar drive in, in people when they work in hospitality, food and hospitality, you know? 

Camille: Hello. Welcome back to Hold the Door. I'm your host, Camille Wilson. This week, Evan Kim joins to discuss leaving the entertainment industry. You'll hear some of the pros and cons of seeing the industry with fresh eyes from the outside looking in, how Evan is still finding creative fulfillment, and what might bring him back to the industry in the future.

Born and raised in Los Angeles, Evan Kim has worked across a number of industries, including fashion, entertainment, and now food and hospitality.

At Netflix, he was the assistant to the former head of original independent and documentary film. Having left Netflix last year, he has moved into food and hospitality, and currently works as a cook at a restaurant. In his free time, Evan likes to kidnap his girlfriend and friends and venture to the edges of LA to find unique restaurants serving familiar and unfamiliar food.

Hope you enjoy our conversation. 

Welcome Evan. 

Evan: Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for joining. I just want to say, I've always wanted to be a guest on a podcast and so I'm excited to be here and I don't know, I just have a lot of opinions I guess so. I'm excited to finally speak them and have them for public consumption. Yes, 

Camille: I I'm so happy that you're here.

And we've known each other for a little while now, but I feel like we haven't gotten too much one on one time. So I'm actually glad to just even be getting to talk. 

Evan: Yeah, absolutely. I'm so excited. Yeah. You're one of my, the first people I ever met at Netflix. So that was yeah. I mean, I think a lot of my experience there was colored by, yeah, like.

That initial group. I mean, we'll probably touch on it, but like that, that original DA class. So, I am. Hopefully 

Camille: colored in a good way. 

Evan: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, for, for sure. Um, so yeah, I'm, yeah, I'm happy that we get to hang for sure. 

Camille: Thank you. Okay. So, as you know, this podcast is about essentially like surviving and thriving in the entertainment industry when, um, With it being an industry that wasn't necessarily built for folks from some kind of underrepresented background.

So I think. It can potentially feel a little counterintuitive to discuss leaving the industry. But I do think that is like a big part of being in the industry is potentially thinking about leaving it or leaving and coming back. So I think it's like, even temporarily, it's like a very real, very common decision.

So I think it's worth discussing. 

Evan: Definitely. Um, 

Camille: but before we get into that, to Let the listeners know kind of a little bit more about who you are in this world outside of work. Here's your chance to read your personal logline.

Evan: Sure, I hope it's okay. This is the first time I've ever had to like write one of these.

Hopefully it doesn't sound too stupid. But, um, I guess my logline is, uh, a Los Angeles native who spends his time eating at restaurants when he isn't already consumed with scrutinizing everything around him. 

Camille: Perfect. Thank you.

Okay, so before we get into the details of Kind of what it's like to leave the industry Um, let's start with how you got into the industry. So, um, kind of how did you get your start in the industry and How Was entertainment always the plan or did you kind of just end up find yourself there?

Evan: Yeah, I think, um, you know, uh, let's see, I think around like my senior year of college, there was like a long time where I thought I was going to be an academic and I was talking to my thesis advisor and, um, she gave me the talk that she gives. every one of her like mentees which is basically like she was talking about how she graduated from like the top, uh, top literary program in the country from like Harvard.

And only 50 percent of her, um, PhD class had gotten academic positions post post like thesis. And of that 50%, that 50 percent actually had like tenured positions at reputable universities. So the way that she was framing it was that, um, Like a lot of people when they try to think about what type of industry they want to go into they Think about what would be like to be at the top of that industry But yeah, she really encouraged me to sort of flip it and take was have me consider like if I was to fail, because like, I guess what she was ultimately saying was that like, most of it's just luck, right?

It's like, even if you graduate in the top part of your class, you know, a good amount of it is just getting lucky with the job. And so if I was to fail or like be in an unlucky position where I wasn't at the top and I was just sort of on the fringes in that business, like, would I still be happy going to work?

And, um. So yeah, that was like really sort of opening. And so it kind of, you know, made me think a lot about what I wanted to do, I guess. And yeah, I just, uh, the thought of like being, uh, an adjunct professor at like some small college in Wyoming was not something that I really wanted to do ultimately, or like would be happy, you know, just being there, I guess.

So then I just like did some thinking and, um, you know, thought about all the things that I was sort of interested in and, uh, having grown up in Los Angeles, like, you know, the film. I was surrounded by a lot of people who worked in entertainment and had sort of viable careers in it. And so and I always like sort of interested me.

I thought, um, you know, I studied art history, so I had sort of an interest in something visual and aesthetic. So yeah, it just was like, Oh, maybe this would be a good industry. You know, it's like if I wake up and like, I'm not the highest position, um, obviously like that's something like I wanted to strive and for that, but like ultimately, You know, if I, uh, woke up and somehow didn't find myself at the top position, I think it'd be like a place where I'd be happy and like happy to work with people and happy to go to my job and, um, spend time there, I guess.

So yeah, around that time I kind of thought I wanted to do it. Um, but I knew that I didn't want to take I didn't want to go directly into like a mailroom program once graduating. So I took some time off. and did a little bit of like a detour into fashion. And so, um, yeah, I was working at, uh, my friend was the manager of, uh, this like Japanese clothing company called BAPE and they were opening their LA store.

So, you know, it just was yeah, there was like a lot of things I was thinking about, I was like, Oh, maybe I'll go to law school and like go the, uh, sort of entertainment business track. Um, And so, meanwhile, like while I was sort of studying for the LSAT, I asked him for a job. Uh, and then so, which kind of became a bit more serious than I had anticipated.

So, at one point I was kind of managing the, Behind the scenes operations for the West Hollywood store. So I helped open the West Hollywood store for that clothing company. And then, um, was sort of managing the operations and sort of like the backstock stuff and, uh, quickly realized like, I didn't want to be in that world.

 But, uh, yeah, so then, and then also, uh, it coincided with getting like the worst, like a horrible score on the LSAT. And so I was like, oh, yeah, but then also I think it was kind of a blessing. You know, it's like I would have gone back to school, which would have been really fun. Like, I really liked it. I did enjoy learning and I enjoyed school, but, um, I kind of realized that like I, what I wanted to do, which is actually just ultimately be more on the creative side of stuff.

I didn't really need to go get, um, a JD to go do those types of things. So yeah. Yeah. After, uh, about like, yeah, I think it was like a two years, maybe a year and a half of just working in fashion and kind of just, it was really nice. Like I, uh, I mean, it was like a privilege to kind of just not have a serious job for a while and sort of just, um, yeah, live a life that was pretty unconcerned, you know, so, uh, before going into like a kind of serious sort of mailroom program.

So then yeah, after, uh, And I think that, uh, like one thing I want to sort of specify like in this is that I think, um, I kind of had a unique situation is like, and since I grew up here and like went to private school in Los Angeles, it was it wasn't that hard for me to get in the door and sort of call and reach out to people that I knew either friends or friends, parents who were already in the entertainment business to sort of get my name out there, I guess.

And so, um, Yeah, I so I just, yeah, just like coming, coming clean about that sort of privilege, I guess, but yeah, I, you know, it's like, yeah, so, um, yeah, once I knew I, I was like, I was ready to go into the entertainment business, I knew, I kind of knew how serious it was going to be for at least the first year of doing like a mail room program.

 Yeah, I just, uh, called my, my best friend's mom who, um, She's a pretty famous producer in Los Angeles, uh, and just asked her like, how do I break in? And she was like, you have to go start in a mailroom and I was like, do I have to do that? And she was like, yeah, you got to do that. So yeah, so I did like the mailroom interviews and then ultimately landed, um, a job at WME and then stayed at WME and then 

Camille: mailroom just in case anyone's listening and doesn't What you see on TV and film.

Evan: Yeah, you know, we have a great show called Entourage that gives us a big Insight into that into that business. I think so. Yeah, you yeah, you literally push a mail cart for like your first few months and the hand mail to people and Yeah, I 

Camille: do want to know so first of all, I think your professor gave really cool advice that I'm like Um, and it seems like a good gauge.

And so did that kind of cross your mind specifically with the mailroom of like, think about what it's like to be at the bottom of that industry? And if you like, did that feel like, Oh, I'm happy in the mailroom if this is where I land or you were just like, I know I won't be here forever. So that's not even what I'm picturing as quote unquote, the bottom.

Evan: Yeah. Yeah. Um, Or you're like, not even. Yeah, yeah, I, yeah, I wouldn't, I heard that advice, I was not, and I was in the mailroom. I didn't picture being, like, a mailroom person for the rest of my life, for sure. And if that was the case, I'd definitely not have. If that's what it meant to like not get lucky I would have definitely not been in this business, but yeah, so 

Camille: I feel like everyone gets out Yeah, 

Evan: yeah, pretty much.

Yeah, you know, I Yeah, I think even um, yeah, like I think if you're there for long enough you there's pathways to Be out of the mailroom, you know unless Yeah, so I kind of I mean I knew that was a stepping stone like the way that they sort of frame it Even from the beginning it um In my interviews, they were like, this is, you do this and then earn your stripes.

Yeah, you earn stripes. And it's a great way to sort of just learn all the names, which you do, and then you, uh, move on. And it felt like a very regimented sort of, uh, like pathway down. Um, so, and that was comforting, I think for, for me too. So, yeah. 

Camille: Nice. So going from the store mm-hmm . In like the fashion industry and going to entertainment.

Because you kind of mentioned this visual aspect and like you kind of have an eye for the creative side of things Did it feel like an easy smooth natural transition from that world into entertainment or was it like? Not prepared or just like these are totally different skill sets. 

Evan: I think it was a bit different Obviously, there's this sort of like client, uh, product relationship that, you know, um, working in, in fashion and dealing with products.

It was, uh, helpful, I think, just sort of realizing like, oh, this is like a monetary transaction, and just being sort of real with that type of idea. And then, uh, certainly just like, being surrounded by, by like information and just having to sort of organize and keep on, keep track of all that was sort of helpful for the first few years of, of being assistant, assistant, I think.

So, um, but ultimately I think it was like pretty different, you know, and I think the biggest difference that I sort of felt was that when I got to the mail room, I realized that a lot of the people, um, had never had other jobs before or, and they're going straight from college. And yeah. And it was, it was kind of like a sort of bizarre, like, I remember there was like this one kid that was in our mailroom class who graduated like two or three weeks after the mailroom, like our class started.

So he was like working. And finishing his finals at the same time. And that was just like, so, that was just a bizarre sort of interaction. Like, I think at that point I had already been out of school for two years. Two years, you know, and, um, I don't want to make it seem like, oh, it's like already this, like, seasoned professional, but just like having people are 

Camille: still trying to understand the world, 

Evan: right?

Yeah. Like this, like just having perspective. Um, yeah, I think one of the, uh, big, like the biggest transitions that was difficult for me was, I grew up in LA and so I had a lot of my own friends that, um, you know, and you 

Camille: weren't relying on them. Yeah. 

Evan: Yeah. And I think that Yeah, I think that a lot of, yeah, a lot of, uh, kids who are born and raised, obviously go in entertainment.

They obviously start in the mailroom. So there's like a group of us that like grew up in LA, but for a lot of the, the people that were working in the mailroom or starting out at the agencies, their like entire social network was built around, The mail room and like it makes sense like you get a bunch of young kids who are all working together Like of course like people are friends and like that parties and so and for me It was like I work here and then I have my friends and so dealing with that sort of social life was a bit difficult And so we're trying to navigate that it just felt Yeah, it was a bit hard for me.

Like I you know, these are kids who was like You know, I was like, you know They find apartments and, uh, through their like mailroom buddies. So they both live with all their mailroom buddies and also work with them and then spend every sort of like social hour with them. And so, um, you know, and I think, uh, I could have done a sort of better job back then.

 To like ingratiate myself into that community a bit more, but, um, yeah, you know, I just was like, you're getting, you know, sort of beat down like all day. And like, the last thing I wanted to do was sort of spend my time. hanging out with people from my work. I'd like, all I wanted to do was see my friends with, that I'd never really got to see.

So, 

Camille: no, I think it's good to have boundaries. Yeah, 

Evan: for sure. And not those, 

Camille: like, separations. 

Evan: Yeah, and I don't know. I think if, like, someone was to ask me, like, um, would you have done things differently? I think I would definitely have, you know, been more open to being social in that way. And I think that's, that's like a huge component of it.

Like, all, when it came down. To just knowing information like those relationships really help people's careers. I think and um, Uh, I just I mean I got lucky in a lot of ways, uh, too, but It might have been a bit easier for me in my path if I had uh, You know try to like really sort of been incorporate myself into that social world.

It's it's hard I think for people. Um, but uh, you know, I think it's sometimes important.

Camille: Yeah. So going from like quickly from the mailroom to your last role, what was the path? Was it straight there or was there anything in between? 

Evan: Yeah. So, um, yeah, it's like, so I guess to those who are not familiar, you start in the mailroom and then you pass out mail.

And then after like a month or a few weeks, you get graduated to becoming, I guess, like a floater where you got to. just cover Assistants who call out sick or if they need to take some time off the desk You go and step in for as little as like an hour or 15 minutes to like multiple days multiple weeks So yeah Yeah, definitely crazy.

I remember They needed me to float on a desk for 30 minutes and they had One floater just to cover the phone from 8 to 8 30 while The actually more trained floater was, um, doing an interview and once she got out of the interview she was just supposed to take over for me. And then the assistant came later at like 9.

30 and they just had like a doctor's appointment in the morning but had used the resources of like two floaters to, cover what ultimately amounted to like an hour and a half of like time needed to be spent, I think. Um, Yeah. I mean, it was, it was wild. Like, yeah, we, I, I think I, I don't know. I forgot how long I was a flour, but I remember, um, kind of not being picked like problematic, oh yeah.

And to those aren't familiar with your floater. And then, during that time after you've. done a couple floats, um, they start putting you up for interviews and you kind of can, I think, ask for what your preference is. And

Camille: what were you thinking at the time? 

Evan: I think at the time I was like, I want to do MP Lit.

Uh, yeah. And 

Camille: which is what? 

Evan: Motion picture literary. So that is representing, Writers and directors. Yeah, and I think producers too. Like you, or like like having relationships with producers. And then, um, so yeah, at the time, I just remember kind of, like, there were a couple desks that opened up, and you kind of, you like, as a floater, you get to hear what's going on, and they, it's like, also a lot of those assistants know that they're leaving, so it's, they're kind of trying to pick who the best floaters are, and put them up for the interviews.

And, um, yeah, I think at the time, like, I remember everyone in my mailroom class was getting jobs. And I was like, why is it, I'm not getting, why am I not getting a job? You're like, this is 

Camille: because I wasn't living with one of these people. Yeah, 

Evan: exactly. Yeah, it's like, if I just went to that party or like went to that, or got invited to those drinks, like I would have been, um, an assistant by now.

 Yeah, I think at that point I was kind of stressing out. I was like, oh, I'm not getting on a desk and ultimately, I think that was a good thing because I remember at the Yeah, my memory might be a little bit hazy, but there was like a long string of, or what felt like a long string of, which only amounted to like maybe two months, where there weren't that many good desks opening up.

You'd like kind of hear like no one wants to be in like, yeah, there's like kind of like things like no one wanted to be in business affairs because like all you do is it's like, you don't get to like be close to the action and stuff. And then there were moments and then like there'd be times when you interview, you have to interview cause you can never say no to an interview and you'd interview for a business affairs desk and you'd get it and you'd just be like pretty bummed or something and know that you'd have to like stay there for at least six months before you got to like go to the other desk that you wanted to go to.

Um, but yeah, I had, yeah, I was a floater for like a while, much longer than I remember anyone from my class. Um, oh, and I just to clarify, like there are, Yeah, like classes, like people get introduced into the mailroom all at the same time. So that was like my, I think, uh, what was it like May or June 2019 was my class.

Um, and yeah, and so, which ultimately ended up being a blessing in disguise because I had floated, uh, for, uh, my friend Elias, actually, he's like one of my really good friends and one of the sort of few people that I really kept in touch with after WME. Um, He's a, he's a manager at Sugar23. Shout out to Alias Genghis.

And so I floated in for him one morning. I think he was out and sort of really connected with the, my, my boss, um, at the time. And yeah, it was, it was kind of like a hot desk cause he had this kind of, he had been a partner for a long time at the company. So he, had one of these like weird hybrid desks, uh, where he started as a talent.

agent, but also just wrapped a bunch of directors and writers. So, So yeah, um, there was this one day and he really, I guess he really took a liking to me and then he knew he's hiring a new assistant. So he, just put me up for the desk and I did an interview with him and ultimately got it. Um, and which also, it was also kind of a bummer though, I remember at the time cause there was this other exec that I was trying to assist for.

Um, and I had like been to come friendly with the assistant. Was kind of like scheming with him to like He was like, yeah, and he was like, I think you're a really good fit like for this desk Like you're uh, I think the boss is gonna really like you So like we were scheming and then I get the call from my boss and then I remember picking it up and then I remember him not being too thrilled by the way that I accepted the job.

And you, Oh, and this is another thing for those who are listening, like who don't know is that you can't say no if you get a job offer. So, yeah. So ultimately, um, yeah. And, as the assistant to a weird sort of hybrid talent MP partner and

Camille: and they weren't happy with how you accepted this job. 

Evan: No, they were unhappy about how I accepted, uh, the partner was unhappy about how.

um, he, he took a different job. No. How I, when he called me to offer the position to me how I, you weren't excited. I wasn't that like, thrilled. I was like, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'd be like, I, I'm, I'm, I'm I'll accept the job. But he wasn't like, you're supposed to kinda be like overjoyed, you know? Yeah. Like, this 

Camille: is the best day of my life.

Yeah, 

Evan: exactly. Yeah. Which I think for a lot of people probably is, like, you're like in the mail room getting yelled at all the time. Yeah, you think it's like, happening. Yeah, it's like the biggest thing to happen in your career. And the only thing I could think about was like, damn, like, I missed out on that opportunity, which is kind of a bummer.

But, um, yeah, yeah. So I was, yeah, and then from there I was the, um, I was the assistant to, uh, Yeah, partner in motion picture, literary and talent. Talent, just to clarify, is like representing actors and actresses. Um, yeah, and so I, was his assistant for I think 10 months, I want to say. Yeah, so, um, and that was like its whole thing, like it was, that was like crazy.

Yeah, 

Camille: I believe it. Yeah, 

Evan: like, um yeah, and I think being Uh, the assistant to partner, you, they, you have like covering agents, right? So, um, those are the sort of the people who are like really like pounding the pavement and kind of like knocking all the doors and doing like the, a lot of the, like the leg work and the partners are kind of there to, um, do more like strategic business relationship building, I think.

So, they aren't as busy, but you end up doing a lot of sort of, at least for my I ended up being like a real personal assistant and doing a lot of like personal tasks and I'm not sure, honestly, I don't really know the state of things like I'm sure at the agencies they still do that. But, um, yeah, that's kind of what, it was like a blessing and curse being like the assistant to partner.

You're not as like busy having to just cover everything and having all this information. But at the same time, um, your days are spent not, uh, doing more sort of like personal. Sort of life management for the agent, I guess. 

Camille: What was the craziest thing you had to do? 

Evan: I guess, like, pick him up from the dealership, like, or drop him off at the dealership.

I thought I remember that being like really weird being where you're like outside of the office and you're just in my car. We're driving like the Porsche dealership. I just dropped him off. It was just was like he was like, you're going to be driving me. And I was like, OK. And I was like, nervous. Like, if he was like, 

Camille: no, that's stressful 

Evan: thinking that like my driving was bad.

But, um, yeah, we got there fine. But it just was like, I guess it was crazy just because it was the first time I was outside the office with him. Yeah, that felt pretty strange. But for sure, you know, it's like I had to like pick up his suits from the tailor. Like I had to like. Yeah. I don't know. There's like a lot of stuff.

Yeah, I remember he forgot his iPad, so I had to like drive all the way from Beverly Hills to Hollywood and like, rush out of traffic just to drop it off, I guess. Oh my gosh. 

Camille: Oh my gosh. 

Evan: Yeah. But, um, Yeah, it was, you know, But he was like really particular, cause he's just like been an agent for a long time, so.

Camille: Yeah, he was steeped in the culture. 

Evan: Definitely. Um, and yeah, his big thing was like you could never, There's like this thing where he would say like you have to send the calls which means to send the calls to make you push press a button on the literal phone desk phone and it just sends all the calls to voicemail instead of having it ring and if you forgot to Hit that button.

You had to buy everyone in the corner of the office coffee And thankfully I never forgot but I just remember like ellie is having to buy coffee for everyone in person Like it must have been like at least like 12 people like coffee from Starbucks and like carrying around like like the Trays of like Starbucks back to the office and stuff So but yeah, it was like, I mean, it's just a classic sort of like 

Camille: Okay, so WME, then Netflix.

Evan: Yeah, and then, um, so yeah, quickly, realized, like, the agency culture wasn't for me. Um, but I think every, I don't know, I think I asked most people who, you worked at ICM, right? No, 

Camille: I didn't do an agency. 

Evan: Oh, I thought you were part of that, like, Cam, Sam, like, ICM crew. 

Camille: No, I was not in there. I think. I was thinking about an agency because everyone said you had to do it.

Basically, when I was starting, it was like, you go to the mailroom or you're a PA on set. Right, 

Evan: right, right. 

Camille: Um, and I shadowed a PA one time. I think I was supposed to be there for like three hours and I left after 45 minutes. Oh, wow. I was like, I hate this. I cannot do this. Yeah. So, but I feel like.

Agencies were already known as being kind of traumatic and like abusive. And so I was open to going if it was what I really had to do, but I was trying not to. So once I got the page program, I was like, I am not going to go to an agency. Oh, right, right. Yeah. You were 

Evan: part of the NBC page program, which I feel like is, yeah, like it's like a saving.

I don't know. It's like really. It's like, is it similar to the agency? I don't know. I've always been curious. 

Camille: I don't think so it's, it's definitely entry level and like, but it's a program, so it's like super structured. It's four specific assignments for three months each. Yeah. You're, I, I don't know if you're getting paid more than an agency, but it's probably a little bit more maybe.

Evan: Oh wow. But, 

Camille: um, But it's just not that, like, stress. It's not the same level of stress and, like, intensity. And then, I think because you're at a big company already, there's a lot more options for where you can go after you're not kind of You don't have to be an agent. You can like go into whatever, marketing.

Evan: Yeah, for the listeners, you'd always hear about these like people who come from a page program. You'd be so jealous that they didn't have to get, uh, go through the agency. 

Camille: But agency people, in my opinion, get more respect. So I think coming out of the page program, there were certain creative desks that they were like, we only want you to interview if you have agency experience, even if you did the page program.

So I knew at least one person who was really trying to get on this creative desk, I think in film. And so he did the page program then went to an agency. And then went back to get that. Whoa, that's crazy. Or a similar desk. Yeah. So it's, there's trade offs depending what you're trying to do. Right, right, 

Evan: right.

Yeah. I remember, yeah. Um, I think there's definitely like, you're in the bunker together if you're at the agency. For 

Camille: sure. Yeah. And I think, I think for the PAGE program, it's similar to the like, oh, y'all live together and you go to parties and you spend all your time together because you're all most likely transplants, and that's your community, but, um definitely less trauma bonding.

Evan: Yeah, oh yeah, there's a lot of that, I think, back in the day, but, um, yeah, I, Yeah, I, I, I was, I was jealous about it. Like, people look at a page program. I think, yeah, you, um, but, yeah, I guess, I mean, I think that, you know, I, there's something to be said about the agency, like, I think it was extremely helpful for getting on a creative desk because you just knew all the names.

Yeah. That's like. 

Camille: And you have the respect, like, there's a natural, there's like a, a known. level that you kind of are assumed to be at if you've been through an agency. Right, 

Evan: right, right. I think like bare minimum you just like know how to roll a call. Yeah. I think. But um, yeah, I think Yeah, I just want to say like I think ultimately like I I look back and I look back at that age experience agency experience Like it was probably like one of the like worst periods of my life Where I had to listen to the Beatles every morning to just like make myself Yeah, like I just remember I was living in the valley at my parents place in Studio City at the time And so I'd take Coldwater Canyon across, uh, to get to Beverly Hills.

And then on the opposite, like, so, uh, there's like a very famous private school called Harvard Westlake that it's on Colorado Canyon. And I remember like all these kids, I see all these kids in the morning driving like G wagons to school. And I was like, Oh, you are all the kids of the agents who are about to just like destroy me.

And like, I'd be driving to the other side, um, like ready, like verbally abused by their parents. But yeah, I, I think ultimately like there was like, yeah, it was like a really crazy and ridiculous place, but ultimately I think for, um, like a career in this business, like it is really helpful. Like, I think the, the kind of the best outcome going into agency and like, obviously like don't want to scare people.

Cause like, it really is just like a really good pathway to get into this business. Like you just want to find like a good mentor at the agency, if you can find that, like, I think you can come out. Um, Oh, this was like a really productive experience. And it's hard to like spot those people out. Like sometimes, um, yeah, like a lot of agents like don't really want to fulfill that position I think.

But like the people who I've found really thriving, if they stayed at the agency or moved on, were the people that kind of found one person in the company to kind of mentor them. Um, I didn't really have that at the time, but I think I just knew I didn't want to stay for that long So I just kind of got out as quickly as possible.

Camille: You weren't trying to find it as much because you were like, I'm out of your scene. Yeah, 

Evan: exactly. But all that to say is I think I look back and I'm like, wow It was extremely helpful for my career. You just know the names like I like so much of the job of being an assistant It just knowing if they if if your boss is just speaking about a person like knowing who that person is.

Yeah You And like that's like level 100 and like level 200 would be like just knowing how to reach them if they need it and then 300 would be like being friendly with the assistant or something and like getting the call through or something like that, but Yeah, yeah, I think um, yeah, ultimately I think it was like really helpful in a lot of ways.

Nice. Yeah 

Camille: So, okay, we talked about getting into the industry and kind of starting so now Leaving. Okay. 

Evan: Yeah. Yeah, 

Camille: so But right before you left When you were still in the industry And I assume planning to stay in it for at least a little bit longer Yeah, like what was your plan at that time? What did you think you were about to do?

Evan: Yeah, I guess just to go back a little bit, um from I I kind of left the agency a bit They say that you're supposed to do like a year on a desk, uh before you leave, but I had heard about this da program Uh department assistant program and netflix, which is I think similar to like a floater Pool, but, definitely a bit chiller since you're working at Netflix.

Um, so I'd heard about that and, you know, Netflix was always like a company that sort of interested me. It was at that time, I mean, they obviously had been making original content for a while, but it, their business, their business and like the way that they were conducting, it just felt like really new.

And, um, it was always like the, the company that would give agents trouble. They were like, oh, this is like a weird, business deal. Like I don't. And like my agent would, the agent I was working for was just like, what, I don't really understand what they're like trying to do and, um, yeah, so I was like, oh, I was like so fed up with like being at the agency.

I was like, I want to go to a place that's like so different. And it felt like the most different company, in entertainment to go work at, obviously. And it had like, it's sort of prestige. So, um, yeah, I, went and became a department assistant where that's where I met you, yeah. And, um, yeah, and. I don't know if you want to touch on that or if you want if I should go, like, answer your question about leaving the business, but, um, 

Camille: yeah.

Well, you don't have to, like, go into detail and explain the DA team. Okay, got it. But, um, but yeah, I think kind of understanding, I guess, what you thought your future would be in the industry. Like, where were 

Evan: you 

Camille: looking? 

Evan: Well, I want, I, I was like, okay, like, I really like working at Netflix. It'd be good to stay here.

So, being a, When you're a department assistant, you're also kind of looking, um, for where you want to be. But you kind of have to be a bit more intention, intentional with that sort of decision, I think. So, it's like, oh, I really love film, so I want to go work on the creative side of film. And, I think I really wanted to go work for my boss, specifically.

Um, yeah, I, yeah, my boss was Lisa Nishimura, so. And she was like a pretty big name within the company at the time. Yeah, and just like, cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I think Yeah, so, and then I kind of heard rumors that her desk was opening up, so then it kind of, I like, did a lot of work to like, get myself in the door, I think.

Um, but I think at that point I was like, oh, I wanna be a creative exec and, uh, ultimately like a be a high level creative exec like running a team. Mm-hmm . And sort of in 

Camille: film specifically? 

Evan: In film, yeah. And, uh, scripted film specifically. And that's why it was like great to work for her just 'cause that's what she was doing, I think.

And sort of getting a, a sense of like what that type of life. is and was for her while she was working at Netflix, I think was, like supremely helpful. But, uh, yeah. So at that time it was like, I was kind of in the thick of it. It was like, Oh, like I'm doing this. And like my ultimate goal is to be a creative exec, you know, and having sort of some like influence on the slate ultimately.

Like I think I wanted to, like, I didn't want to just be, you know, 

Camille: Like green lighting individual projects. Yeah, I 

Evan: think like having, making strategic decisions about like what people watch, I think was sort of interesting and being more on the holistic business side of things. Um, Obviously that didn't, like, come, come about, but yeah, I think, uh, that's kind of what I was sort of interested in, you know, I think there, yeah, there's like really good creative execs who are in the weeds with certain projects.

And I knew that I definitely want to do that work. And like, that's a lot of the work that you have to start doing, I think. But, um, ultimately like my goal is to like be more answering like sort of a bigger question of like, what, Are people interested in watching and like what is 

Camille: shape the culture? 

Evan: I guess in some way, you know I mean that seems like kind of naive to say but But yeah, 

Camille: like I mean Definitely.

Evan: Yeah like that you and that's why like I thought it was so powerful like working Here's just because you have that kind of like you have it has the capacity like I I was on the team when the tinder swindler came out and just like having Seeing like what that did and like how much of a stronghold it had on on culture like it was really Sort of amazing to watch I think 

Camille: So did you Like now in your life right now.

Is that still on the table to be a creative exec or that's past? 

Evan: Yeah, I think to go back to your earlier question of like Like how was it like leaving? You know, like I I It kind of like all the cards sort of like fell in Like yeah Like everything was like sort of like put into place and it kind of I was at that point like sort of burnt out on being in Entertainment.

I think it coincided with like a lot of sort of Larger like industry shifts of like what people are watching and I felt sort of less interested in the types of movies though We're coming out here and like coming out Okay, like coming out Netflix or coming out anywhere else and In the business. And you know, we had like gone through COVID, like I think at that point it had been like a few years into COVID and it like really shaped people's viewing habits in like sort of a different way.

So like when I really thought about it, um, I was like, Oh, if I was to leave Netflix, which is like, I think is a question that crosses people's minds a lot when you work at Netflix like where would I go? Um, and then like, I started thinking about it and it's like, Oh, I didn't really, there wasn't like a place that I knew like I wanted to go to afterwards.

So I, yeah, I think I was just like at that time felt kind of burnt out and, um, wanted to like do something differently, uh, do like going into a different industry. And then it was like a similar time of like a similar sort of thought process. Like when I left fashion, I was like, Oh, I'm kind of sort of figuring out what the next thing is.

So yeah, I left. Um, and I can say like right now that. I'm happy not being in entertainment and I'm totally open to that changing, you know, um, if life takes me on a path that It makes sense to return like i'm totally happy to do it but Yeah, I just think like right now like I feel pretty happy with my decision.

I got for Like just to just be honest, like I yeah, I got laid off pretty much, you know, like, um, lisa got Exited from the company and then You Yeah, there wasn't a place to put me. And I think at the time I could have sort of interviewed to go somewhere else, but I think, um, where my head was at, I just was like, Oh, it's best to just kind of leave and like, take some time away.

Yeah. Um, and 

Camille: kind of a natural transition. Yeah. Just like it kind of all fell into place. 

Evan: Yeah. Like I, and I was like, Oh, this is like a sign from the universe that like, I, maybe it's time to go do something else, you know? Obviously like, uh, yeah. Yeah, just, um, like time, like age wise, like I felt that it was kind of it made sense, you know, like I could kind of see the path unfolding for me where it's like, oh, if I stay here, I'm kind of locked in, um, at least for a while.

So, yeah, it's just like everything sort of made sense for me at the time. It was, um, like last year for me to, to leave, uh, entertainment. Yeah, and I had been interested in food for a really long time and, um, it felt kind of natural to go into that sort of business. It felt so much smaller in comparison, you know, it's like, there's a lot of similarities, I think, but, um, yeah, just the scale of it and the stakes feel smaller in some way.

I mean, also bigger, but, just like you're dealing with, like, so much of a smaller experience. Yeah. 

Camille: Did you feel like your identity played a role in you feeling. More or less comfortable in the industry or like specifically in that last role because um, I think Honestly, lisa was so cool.

Yeah Like literally that I feel like that's just the first word that comes to mind when I think about her but she was also an asian woman who was like, 

Evan: yeah, 

Camille: Doing huge things and really respected. 

Evan: Yeah, and 

Camille: I think um, You That is unfortunately rare, but I think, even for me, we look nothing alike, like, I don't look like her at all, but I'm like, it's cool to know that someone is doing it.

Right, right, right. And like, figuring it out. So, yeah. do, do you feel like that played a role? And I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. Yeah, yeah. So if you're like, no, that's also good. 

Evan: I like, I, I remember when I was a floater and I was going on all the desks and like learning all the names of the, there's so many people in this company, so like just learning who everyone was.

 Yeah. Like it was definitely the prospect of working for an Asian woman at be also being Asian is, um. Yeah, it was like, it was so, like I, I was, yeah, like that prospect was so exciting, I think. Yeah. Um, and yeah, just, I just remember, yeah. And it was like a lot of the draw and you know, I think obviously there was like other things in my career that I wanted to achieve and like I wanted to work for someone pretty high level.

Yeah. And so it kind of just like all it was like, that is the job that I wanted and I kind of worked towards that, I think. Yeah. So I strategized around trying to work for someone who ticked those boxes. Like in, um, yeah. And that was like one of the big boxes that I wanted to take was to, uh, work for someone.

Yeah. Just, yeah. Who is different, I think. So yeah, it definitely played a role. I'd say. Yeah. 

Camille: Yeah. And then, do you, Feel like have it kind of getting a little bit of distance from the industry it's changed the way that you Consume content. 

Evan: Yeah, definitely. I think um Ah what was the way that someone described it?

It was like when you're working in entertainment every time you watch a movie or tv show It feels like work even if it's not like related to netflix like you're always kind of watching it in that way from that lens. Um, and I think i'm finally like breaking out of that You Sort of viewing experience where yeah, I can go watch a movie or something and like just be like purely enjoy it yeah as a spectator, you know, it's like yeah, because like as an assistant like you're You're supposed to do like information gathering like at every juncture, you know So it's like oh if you go watch a movie it's like you want to know who the writer and director are you want to like put them on some tracking list and like make sure like Someone is setting if it's like a hot movie like someone's meeting them on a general or something Or just 

Camille: even like Giving notes in your head.

Right, right, right. Like, oh, they 

Evan: could've tightened this up. Right, right. And yeah, watching, um, Yeah, watching something in a way to, help you articulate something later down the line. You know, um, And I found, uh, you know, that to be, like, I couldn't, I didn't really watch anything for enjoyment anymore. And that's, I think, like, had a big role in wanting to leave at some point.

Where, you know, I loved, like, I loved movies, like, growing up, and, um, it was, like, a big part of my life, and, like, watching movies in that way took away from that experience that I had when I was young, of watching movies, and that made me feel pretty, uh, unhappy, I think. Yeah, you can 

Camille: get lost in it.

Yeah, 

Evan: exactly, like, and a lot of the reasons for, like, why I wanted to come into the business weren't being articulated, I think, And I think, yeah, obviously like you grow, you change and like, but that sort of, um, those sorts of like young experiences, like watching whatever movie for the first time and just having that sort of experience.

I wasn't like receiving, I, yeah, I wasn't receiving that from watching anything. And so, I'm happy to like watch movies, like be able to watch movies now and just enjoy them as like a spectator. Yeah. 

Camille: There's also I feel like you have to watch so many things you don't actually want to watch also just to say that you watched it 

Evan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, I think going back to the like sort of social world at WME And I think that's like a similar thing like once you graduate like that social world is there like you need You go and you watch all the movies so that you can talk about with your colleagues on Monday, you know, so Yeah, and I have to say, like, I, I think I was kind of lazy in that way.

Like, I, all I wanted to do was like hang out with my friends on the weekend and like, uh, like not watch anything. 

Camille: Yeah. Which is really funny because I completely understand why you say that's lazy, but it's also just like healthy and good to have a work life balance. But yeah, when, especially early on in the industry, Like you were saying with not being excited enough about accepting the role.

It's like, they want you to eat, breathe, sleep, this thing and make it your world. And a lot of people do because it feels like that's what you have to do to survive. And so it's tough. 

Evan: Yeah, it's tough. I mean, there's trade offs for sure. Um, I think also being on a creative desk, like, Yeah, like sad to say it's like, it's not like the, you don't get off the clock necessarily when like when you clock out the office or, you know, it's like, um, and there's sort of like an expectation to like go and experience life also and see how sometimes it can benefit work.

And I think there's like something fun about that to people. And I think I certainly felt some of that at some time in my life, but, yeah. Yeah, I just like longed for that time of like going back to the movie theater and just like watching something and having like a Great time. Yeah, and not feeling like there was some sort of burden related to that experience.

Yeah 

Camille: Yeah Yeah, so that's like Definitely one of the pros of being out of the industry Is there anything else or other big pros and cons between being in and out that you would say you've noticed? 

Evan: In 

Camille: the last year or so 

Evan: I guess it's not necessarily a pro or con, but I think one thing that I definitely have noticed leaving the industry is when you're in entertainment, it is really consuming.

So like every, like everyone knows what you're kind of talking about. It's like, Oh, so and so like left this company, like they're going to go get an overall deal over there or something, you know? Um, and the biggest like reckoning that I kind of had was like, No one outside of entertainment knows how a movie really is made or like how a TV show gets made like they have no idea What a green light?

What like what a green light means or like what an overall deal is, you know Which, 

Camille: I'm like, maybe we should explain that. Oh yeah, yeah, oh yeah, 

Evan: for sure Yeah, like an overall deal is A deal that a creator has with the studio, uh, where a studio gives them a sum of money to like, where they're contractually obligated to develop, X amount of shows or X amount of movies.

Uh, I think obviously Dealsbury stuff. And then obviously I'd like things like First Look where it's like, they have first rights to anything that you create, you know?

Camille: And then if they say no, you can shop it around. Yeah, 

Evan: exactly. Yeah. And, uh, um, Yeah, I and that was like the big thing that I kind of like took away like I trying to remember what the recent conversation was Um, like I don't even think there's like people who don't even really know what a writer's room is And that's like to me obviously when you're in the business, it's like that is like crazy Like how do you not know what a writer's room is?

but You know, I was talking about how my girl, my girlfriend is a writer and she's in a room right now. And so it's like explaining to someone that congrats also. Oh, yeah. Kind 

Camille: of a big deal. 

Evan: Definitely. Like he's right now, like with the state of things. Also, I wanted, I should also add that like the, like the state of the industry when I was leaving was one where I was like, it kind of made sense for me to, like, if I was going to go switch into a different industry, it made sense to do it at that time.

Um, anyway, I was like talking about Her being in a writer's room and like what a showrunner was and they had like that was like a completely foreign concept to uh this person, you know, and I think that um Like even growing up in la like a lot of people are like tangential to the business So they have ideas of what that it are, but you meet Leaving the industry you meet a lot of people.

I guess this is like a benefit You just meet like lots of different types of people, you know and You They have no idea what a writer's room is, I guess. And that was a bit refreshing. 

Camille: That's nice. 

Evan: Yeah, and uh, I don't know. Should I speak more about like the pros and cons, I guess? I don't know if I have Only 

Camille: if you want.

Only if you feel like there's stuff you want to share. But don't be like, you have to like, pool 

Evan: something. Well, the con is like, I really miss like, um, working for a company where like, things are sort of, Like it's like there is like a system to help you out in some way. Like I just remember, and I don't know if Netflix is the same.

Like I was like, I know Netflix has changed a lot, but I just remember, um, a flight getting canceled and I was kind of like stranded and didn't really know what to do. And like all the rebooking fees were so expensive. So I just called the Netflix travel team and I was like, I need to get back to LA for my job.

Is there any help I can get? And they just like. It was so crazy, they were like, I called them while I was in Korea, so 

Camille: Okay, so this was not like, oh, I'm stranded in Arizona. Yeah, yeah, I was like, 

Evan: overseas, and They, uh, luckily like we had a travel team and, um, you know, they're like, yeah, like we're, we're signing off like us time.

It's like about to be six. So we're signing off. But like someone in Asia is waking up, uh, and they'll take over and like you, you can just handle it with them. And so they were like literally had someone like around the clock working on this problem for me. And I was like, that isn't like that type of, yeah, infrastructure was like incredible, you know?

And. Yeah, I can certainly say with confidence, like, that isn't really there in food and hospitality, you know. Yeah. Um, but, yeah, so I think like those types of things are, it's like a con, you know. Like, working for a corporation, you get those kinds of benefits, obviously, so. 

Camille: Yeah. Um, okay. So now you're in the food and hospitality industry. First of all, was that a goal or a plan or you were like, I'm just open. And that's kind of where you landed out of curiosity.

Evan: I mean, I think I always had imaginations of being somehow involved in some way. Like I love restaurants so much and I love dining and I love food. So, yeah, I, I can't say like it was ever, yeah, I think I had interests in it, but it wasn't, I didn't always have this like master plan to go into food and hospitality, but wanted to be in some way involved with it.

Um, so, so yeah, that's, yeah. 

Camille: Yeah. Knowing you're, um, a creative at heart, like, how are you kind of feeding your creative passions and interest in your current career? 

Evan: Yeah.

Camille: Can I call you a chef? Is that accurate? 

Evan: I mean, that's what they know. I, I, I feel like that term is sort of reserved for people at the top.

Yeah. I cook is probably better. Okay. But, um, yeah. Yeah, I think, I mean, we call it, yeah, I think, yeah, it's probably better, but, Um, I think, I guess, maybe it's not as creative, but, I think the thing that I've always sort of valued, uh, and it definitely played a role in working in entertainment, was that.

This kind of, um, amazing opportunity to be in people's sort of vulnerable lives, I think, or vulnerable spaces. So for me it was like always so, uh, kind of important or powerful. This, like, idea that we can, um, like people pay money to, watch something on Netflix and they're, so, Like they can go anywhere else, but they decide to pay money and they decide to go on, put their TV on and watch something on Netflix.

And to me that was like super important, I think. Um, or just like that kind of opportunity felt really valuable. And, you know, I felt lucky to have, I felt lucky to be in a position where we had some contribution to that type of thing. And I think I kind of take that and move it into the food side and so much sort of smaller, obviously operation in comparison to Netflix.

But. At the end of the day, I think the thing is to just be, um, kind, like, uh, just appreciate that sort of experience.

Camille: The connection. 

Evan: Yeah, it's just, someone has spent their hard earned money to have a nice meal at a restaurant, and they are paying you money to, uh, for you to help facilitate that, and I feel proud to be in that.

in a position to facilitate that, I think. So, yeah, I think that's kind of, uh, I, I don't know if it's necessarily tied to creativity, but that sort of opportunity, seems powerful and it felt, uh, like when I was thinking of other industries to go into that kind of connection to that, to that, yeah, that, to that position felt important.

And, um, I think more, like if, uh, to touch on the more creative side of things, I think there's, uh, a lot of create what creativity looks like in making a movie is kind of being meticulous about things and knowing that it can always be better. And, um, I think that's how I operate when I'm in the kitchen too, where Every day is a little step towards trying to make something better, be more efficient, be able to do things more quickly, and ultimately make something beautiful, you know?

Yeah, and so that's kind of where I express that creativity, I think. 

Camille: Yeah, I love that description, actually, a lot. 

Evan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think, I mean, it's humbling. It's like a super humbling experience, and If I think back, I don't think I really appreciated that kind of quality, in the job that we were doing.

I mean, obviously you're like a thick of things. And, you know, it's like, you're just trying to, um, it's like the director is not cooperating or something and you're just trying to get them the notes or something like that. But ultimately everyone is on this kind of, journey to make the creative product as beautiful as possible.

Um, in every sense of that word, I think so, and I feel sort of similar drive in, in people when they work in hospitality, food and hospitality, you know? 

Camille: Yeah. Do you feel like there's any, cause, okay, so early, um, maybe when I was still in college. I was like, I'm going to be a writer, a screenwriter.

And then when I found out how long it takes to make a film, I was like, never mind, I'm going to be a TV writer that's faster. And so, but obviously it can still take so long. So. And not to push my own problem onto you or annoyances, but do you feel like there's any kind of like. Benefit to the, like quicker trade off of creating something in the kitchen and having it go out within a few minutes.

Versus like, we've been working on this for three years. Right, right. Um, and obviously you're working on multiple projects at a time, so it probably doesn't feel like you're doing one single thing for three years. But do you ever think about that? Is that a thing to do at all? 

Evan: Yeah. I mean, that sort of instant gratification, I think was, yeah, it's definitely a draw, you know, it's, um, and, I think I like occupying people's lives in kind of a more, casual type of way, you know, or my work occupying people's lives in a more casual type of way, you know, and, um, yeah, I have, obviously, uh, creating something and having people enjoy it is something that's important to me, you know, and, I felt that When working in entertainment, it's, there's so many other components that go into it.

Like so much of it is just like a business decision. Um, and so like it gets modeled and you know, there are times when you have to like make something you don't want to make. But, uh, I think with food, it's kind of the opposite of that, where it's, there's like just the question of like, did you enjoy this dish or did you not, um, has so much more.

of a, it has such a pronounced effect on like the decisions that get made, I think. So, yeah, I, yeah, I definitely, that like sort of, like I'm willing to make the trade off of like, if to fulfill people's lives in my work, um, in a smaller type of way, but to be, have a more streamlined, uh, sort of response, you know, I think the trade off makes me happy at least.

Camille: Yeah, for sure. And maybe potentially less like Factors where you can actually isolate something right and fix that thing. 

Evan: Yeah 

Camille: So I know you said you're not necessarily planning to go back to the industry right now, but you're open to it So do you have kind of? How do you maintain inroads back into the industry or do you?

And I know you said you're local LA and that's kind of in the air. 

Evan: Yeah. I, yeah, I definitely try to keep tabs on what's going on. So it played such a big part of my life, um, being in entertainment and even before then just movies in general played a big, role in my life. So. Yeah, I guess I still read Deadline every once in a while, I still read Variety every once in a while, and then I think, but like the biggest thing for me was just like maintaining the relationships I had with people that I genuinely appreciated, you know.

You meet a lot of people, you become friends with a lot of people working in entertainment, and once you leave, um, I mean just speaking honestly, it's like you're not necessarily, that keen on having a relationship that's beyond like a personal relationship. But like to the ones that to the like maybe few that I've made, like I really wanted to sort of, maintain those relationships and it makes it easy like knowing, you know, they're talking like they're so ingratiated and like so involved in this kind of um, like insular industry, and having some like being able to like talk to them and still being You know, interested in what they had to say, like I, yeah, like I, I feel, I am, I'm glad that I still have that, you know?

Camille: Yeah. 

Evan: Um. 

Camille: Are any of those people, people you would consider mentors? Where it's like, oh yeah, they were mentoring me while I was in the industry, and then maybe your relationship has changed a little, but they're still there. 

Evan: Yeah, I think you know, I think people kind of when they think of mentor mentee relationships, they always like think of someone older who's like been in the business for a lot longer and is much wiser and can help them.

But you know, like, so much of the mentoring that happens in my like, day to day life, or just from colleagues who are either at the same level, like other assistants, other uh, People, you know, even people younger than me or older than me have been in the business for longer or shorter periods of time, you know, I think that I think like people have this kind of, sort of idyllic image of like what a mentor is.

And I don't think I really had that, um, as much as other people, like, I think people make me like, people are so busy all the time. So it's hard to like maintain that or have that type of relationship. But, Yeah, I think just, um, having good relationships with people, you know, I just like talking to my friend today and he, has left the entertainment industry and like the thing that we always tell ourselves is like always be kind to the people on your way up because you never know who you have to count on the way down, you know, and, um, I feel, yeah, and that's, that I think it was important to me just like just leaning on colleagues, you know, and, Looking towards like the people like immediately around me for like mentorship, I think, so.

Yeah. Um, yeah, I think people kind of overprivilege this like wiser, older mentor type, but yeah, I think, you know, I, I learned so much from the people I think around me, at my level, you know. 

Camille: Yeah. Which is, that's actually a good note, and I've been thinking about this lately too. I think. Yeah. And hopefully I don't define this improperly, but I, I think mentors are, um, basically while you're saying, like, giving you advice, helping you understand things, helping you find your way, but then a sponsor is maybe someone who can, like, speak your name in rooms you're not in or, like, get you that job and kind of get you that next level up.

And, um, I think. Those are sometimes harder to find and maybe kind of what people are picturing when they think of a mentor. 

Evan: Yeah, 

Camille: maybe. 

Evan: I think so, you know, When I think of a mentor, it's like kind of someone, um, that checks in with you a lot and sort of and I think that that type of that is pretty hard to find just because people are so busy in this in this industry Yeah, that's true.

It's like when they are a mentor Not working. They want to be spending time with their families, you know? Um, but it's, but I don't want to underestimate what you're saying about the sponsor who, yes, like maybe that person is not holding your hand or always sort of checking in on you, but, um, they might be like saying your name in those rooms that where your name needs to be said, I think.

And so, I guess like, obviously like ideally you'd find both, but, um, Yeah, I so I don't know I just don't underestimate I guess the people around me. Yeah Have that sort of older wisdom. Yeah 

Camille: And you've literally lived it of like starting in the mail room knowing how that network works and then 

Evan: Yeah, like I remember at Netflix, like still reaching out to some of my mail room colleagues who are now agents at the agency just to ask for a phone number.

Yeah, like you still have to kind of do that. 

Camille: Yeah. Yeah, I, yeah. Love when that stuff happens where I'm like, Oh my gosh, that was helpful. I had a connection that otherwise it would have taken hours to get this. 

Evan: Yeah. Right. And that stuff is so valuable I think. And, uh, it seems not, but like there's some, it has, yeah, people are recognizing it I think.

Camille: Yeah. Um, so Looking at the current state of the industry from the outside quote unquote looking in and also Leaving it open that this could potentially change by the time this episode comes out. So Putting that out there It can still be relevant but like what's your what's your take on what you see now?

With like some space but still being checked in and in the loop 

Evan: It feels a bit bleak, right? I guess I just, just speak honestly. Like, I think there was a lot of, um, uh, I don't know what the word is honestly, like, but like maybe there was like a lot of hope coming out of the writer's strike that like things would be made, but you know, it's, I call a lot of friends and like, nothing's really seemingly happening and like a few things are going and so you're really lucky if that thing is going, you know?

 Yeah. And I think, um, yeah, I don't know. I think they're like the one sort of saving grace, I think, is that there's so much more international stuff. That's like exciting, I think. And like, yeah, I don't know. I think that stuff is like where at least I feel kind of there's hope, but, um, yeah, like with this current state just feels a bit bleak, I would say, but, uh, Yeah, I don't know, if it's to speak honestly.

Yeah, 

Camille: I think that's probably accurate. I think if we did a poll, it would probably come back. 

Evan: Yeah, like people are really stressed out, I think. And, you know, you forget about kind, there's, it's like, there's so many jobs that get put on like one TV show or one movie, you know. And, you're thinking about, like I'm, I'm worried about people like, you know, hairdressers.

Like they, they So much of their kind of, um, steady income came from doing film or TV and they just have suddenly lost that overnight, you know? And I think, I think, I don't know, there's like a lot of, um, I think there's this kind of like pervasive fear, like, right? Like there's this people need sort of like a confirmed, they have, they want to have this idea of like a confirmed hit.

Camille: Yeah. 

Evan: It really, before 

Camille: they go too far. 

Evan: Yeah. And it like really deters a lot of people from taking risks on certain things. And I don't know if ultimately people really enjoy it. Like I, I, that's the thing I kind of asked myself. It's like maybe people are enjoying these shows, you know, but certainly a lot, a lot of what's coming out feels, less exciting for me, you know, um, like less risky, you know?

And, uh, yeah, I just, I hope there can be a time when like, really weird shows can come back, really weird movies can come back, and, you know, um, And it doesn't have to be this thing, it's like, oh, it has to be Marvel or nothing, you know. And I think people are catching on. I mean, I think there's like some hope in that.

Like, people are kind of getting sick of the Marvel stuff, and like, people are, they're not just wanting to see the same thing recycled, but in a different way. Once they 

Camille: start all those, Yeah. I think people are like, that's enough. 

Evan: Yeah. Like there's so many spinoffs and like, he said, it's so hard to keep track of like the original, like thing that got you into that world, you know?

And I think people are finding it to be extremely overwhelming. And I think, so my hope at least is that like people catch on and they are like, yeah, we'll reject that type of stuff and watch some weirder, smaller stuff. Yeah. 

Camille: Anything else you want to add that we haven't discussed yet? 

Evan: I think you kind of asked a question about if I was to come back to the industry, what, uh, in what capacity.

Yeah. And, I'm not quite sure exactly. But, um, one thing I do want to say and think that I do love is just like connecting people together. And, If I can even have like one toe in there, you know, and just be able to connect so and so and like make, you know, you meet a lot of people in this business and just to, even if I'm out of there and like one day, like I'm working in a restaurant and so and so comes in, I can like get their phone number and connect them with another person like that to me, um, is the part of the job that felt really fun and really valuable.

You know, it's like that. Um, and I kind of took pride in this sort of like weird, like behind the scenes type of thing of like, Oh, this is happening because I put someone in touch with another person. Like you facilitated 

Camille: that. Yeah, exactly. And 

Evan: I think a lot of this job in this business is just relationship building and connecting people with the right people.

So, you know, if, yeah. Right now I feel like content not being in entertainment, but if there is a role down the line where that is one of the big parts of the job, then like, of course, like it'd be something that sounds so fun and enticing to me. 

Camille: Awesome. Okay. And this question I'm asking everyone on this season, um, what keeps you up at night industry or otherwise?

Evan: Right now, I guess right now, I mean, like, it's hard to ignore like the stuff that's happening in the Middle East, you know, um, one of my best friends is Palestinian. So, like I, I don't mean to take like a bleak turn at the end of the, the podcast, but, um, 

Camille: but yeah, that's real. 

Evan: Yeah. Just, uh, you know, like just what's happening in Palestine.

What's happening in Lebanon. And, uh, Yeah, that definitely keeps me up at night, you know? Um, I guess, yeah, like, just imagining a world where Palestine is free is like, would, is the thing that, try, like, makes me both, like, simultaneously, like, have hope, but also despair, and then you get into a spiral, like, you know?

But, um, I think that, yeah, that's definitely a thing. But I think about, you know, like, On a more sort of optimistic note, just, I think the thing that like, drives my life a lot right now is just going and finding these sort of strange restaurants. Or not, I mean, strange is like a kind of loaded term, I think, but like, it's obviously not strange to a certain grouping of people, but Finding these like, sort of hyper specific restaurants, like I really want to go eat.

wonton noodle soup. And like, I've been kind of interested in Cantonese cooking recently. And so, um, I've been sort of like venturing into like the San Gabriel Valley or like the sort of lesser known parts of Los Angeles in search of that type of food, you know? And, uh, that definitely, yeah, I just like that kind of drive.

I've always been like someone who's like likes to go find and like put in the work to go find some like hidden gem. Yeah. That's always been like the case, even when I was young, like collecting. Clothes or sneakers or whatever. It's like I would put in the work like wait out all night to go get that shoe or something like that.

Camille: That is definitely a much cooler thing. Cause I was going to ask you if you did geocaching. Yeah. Uh, I don't 

Evan: know what geocaching is. I don't think 

Camille: it's 

Evan: like, yeah, 

Camille: it's like, um, is it an app? It must be an app or something. But basically It's like finding treasure. Okay, cool. That sounds amazing. So there's like literally hidden stuff.

You can just be like, Oh, I'm in this city or I'm in this part of the city. Wherever. And then it will tell you where all the things are. And then, I don't know if there are clues. It doesn't just literally say it. You have to do a little bit of work on your own. But I When he said finding things, that's what came to mind.

Oh, yeah. 

Evan: I mean, yeah, I think that's totally in line, you know, it's like, I, I was really into vintage clothes for a long time in my life. And so just going into some random thrift store, like just in search of something really sort of hyper specific, um, and like, yeah, so I, I haven't, I've always been someone who's like, It didn't matter like the time or effort like if I ended up getting something in the end like it was so worth it.

So yeah, I like my girlfriend and I drove like an hour and a half to go eat. Katsu and uh, Whittier, I think, and we were like stuck in traffic, but like ultimately that one meal like was so worth it to me, you know. Do you 

Camille: want to do a name drop? 

Evan: Um. 

Camille: Or do you want to keep it a secret? Not that this, I don't, you don't know how many people are going to listen.

Yeah, yeah. 

Evan: But, yeah, um, it's called Lucky Pig in Whittier. Nice. And, yeah, it's really, really, it's amazing. But, um. Yeah, so I don't know that like food has fulfilled that part of my life where like I really Love to go search and find things, you know, or find those restaurants and find those like sort of strange dishes, you know, um Yeah, I think You have to answer your question.

Yeah. 

Camille: Yeah, that's great Well, I wish you luck on your next hunt 

Evan: very much. 

Camille: And thank you for doing the podcast. Yeah, 

Evan: I, you know, I, again, like, I'm so happy to be a guest right now because this has been, like, a lifelong dream. So, 

Camille: happy to play some role in that. Thank 

Evan: you.

Camille: Thanks for tuning into my conversation with Evan.

If you want to keep up with him, you can find his social media accounts in the show notes.