Pursuing TV Writing Full Time with Tamera Davis

On this episode of Hold the Door, Tamera Davis joins the pod to discuss pursuing her dream of becoming a TV writer full time. She shares how she realized it was time to quit her regular 9-5 and what it's like to be in a writers' room.

You can stay connected with Tamera via her LinkedIn and Instagram @tamerinara.

Make sure to subscribe to Hold the Door on your favorite listening platform. You can also get updates on guests, episode releases, and more by following the show on Instagram @holdthedoorpod.

Transcript

Camille: The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the host and guests alone.

Tamera: If I'm bothering you by saying an email, like, every, like, six months, like, then you get bothered really easily.

That's, like, really, you should get that checked, you know?

Camille: So, how do you manage 

Tamera: that? Medication. Not self prescribed, okay? Prescribed by a psychiatrist, a really gifted psychiatrist.

Well, we don't gotta talk about my love life, girl, so. Um, cause that's what keeps me up at night

Camille: Hello. Welcome back to Hold the Door. I'm your host, Camille Wilson. This week, Tamera Davis joins to discuss quitting her regular nine to five to pursue TV writing full time.

We'll learn about what made her realize it was time to focus on her dreams. what she's working on now, and get a little peek into what it's like to be in a writer's room. Hope you enjoy our conversation.

Tamera Davis, she, her, is a writer producer from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. After graduating from New York University and having a short stint at ICM Partners, Tamera went on to work in drama series development at Netflix for several years. Since then, Tamera has pivoted to writing and production, working as a writer's assistant on the Hallmark show Ride, helping produce her friend's queer action short film, and most recently, working as a writer's assistant on an upcoming Netflix limited series.

Growing up as a black teenager and attending a predominantly white and straight Quaker school, having black and queer representation on television was incredibly impactful in how she saw herself fitting in the world. She hopes to have a similar impact on teens and young adults by specifically emphasizing BIPOC and queer perspectives and mental health in young adult stories.

She is dedicated to not only creating impactful content, but also promoting inclusivity in the entertainment industry.

Tamera, welcome to the pod. Thank you for having me. Thank you for being here. So, you've done something that I've heard so many people consider doing, but I actually don't think know very many, at all, who have actually done it, which is leave a, full time corporate job and pursue writing full time without necessarily having that, like, next job lined up.

And so, obviously that's so scary, but you did it, and so I'm excited to talk about that process because So many people think about this, um, or even just making some kind of pivot and pursuing something that they're more excited about, but something that is less, um, guaranteed and a little bit more unknown and a bunch more of a risk versus staying in that kind of like safe space of, Oh, maybe the devil, you know, kind of situation.

So, um, hope this can help people who are considering making a similar kind of move. we'll start with your start in the industry. So in a lot of ways, I think you kind of had the stereotypical entrance into the industry, which is, you went to NYU, you did an intern program in LA, you went to an agency, You went to a big streamer, and then you became a showrunner's assistant.

Um, but I'm sure it didn't actually feel like each next step was easy or always known. Yeah, even though that is a relatively common path to take. Um, so we'll talk about all of that. Okay, great. First, let's get to your logline. Okay. If you're ready, please share your logline. 

Tamera: Oh, I'm just reading it.

Your personal logline. Okay, my personal logline. Okay, so who is Tamera? Um, she's a black, queer, extremely talented, overqualified assistant who's patiently waiting for the troll, the post WJ strike climate, uh, to let her pass and get that first staff writing gig. Um, 

Camille: and I love that you tutored your own horn a little bit there.

Tamera: I am so talented. And I'm just waiting. 

Camille: We'll get you there. So, how, uh, I mentioned some of the steps you did, but like how did you get your start in the industry? And was entertainment always the plan? 

Tamera: Yeah. I knew since I was little that I wanted to be in entertainment. I just didn't know exactly what I wanted.

Um, I used to think I wanted to be Oprah, um, which sound like a great path. That does sound like a great path. Very lucrative. Um, but yeah, I know. So I grew up, Knowing I wanted to go to school for some type of arts, just didn't know what. And then I went to NYU at Gallatin, their school of individualized study, because I didn't know exactly what I wanted to do, and I wanted to figure that out.

And I took a lot of producing and writing classes, um, and realized, Growing up with TV and feeling represented, those are like, during my formative years, I really escaped in TV and feeling like I was seen. And so I realized when I started taking writing classes, I wanted to start creating stories for someone like me growing up.

So I actually started out thinking I wanted to write children's TV and then felt limited by that and transitioned into more like drama and YA, during those formative years. So that's kind of what I became passionate about. And so, yeah, I, Um, I didn't figure out like, there's in New York, there's not much writing or development.

So I kind of just went for the fun internships that everyone talked about and to just have that experience. And so I, Which is like what, Broadway? No, no, like late night. I did like, That makes more sense. Um, I worked at my school's theater. I love theater. But, um, in the sense of like, helping me make connections toward, that's a little adjacent to television.

Um, I interned at, Harry Connick Jr. show, which, short lived. Um, and then I interned at Seth Meyers. And then my last internship in New York was Saturday Night Live. So very fun, fast paced environments. I knew quickly that, late night wasn't for me, but it still was cool to meet people. And like, get exposure to television in some way.

And then how I got my start as, uh, I mean, I was an adult technically, but like a working full time adult was the, Oh, I forgot to say my, one of my first internships was Broadway video, which is, Uh, Lorne Michaels company and they do make content. I was more on the social media side, but I just made sure I like got connected with people.

And there's this one lady there named Christina McGinnis, who's worked with Lorne since like the eighties, I think. And so she, I told her I was the summer before my senior year, senior year that I was going to LA to try it out. Cause I just kept hearing like TVs in LA. And I just wanted to make sure that I didn't hate LA.

And so summer before senior year, I visited L. A. for the summer. I had a million coffees with people to like figure out how they got to be a showrunner's assistant or a writer's assistant or whatever. They all said, um, You gotta work at agency. It's, it's terrible, but you have to do it. And I was like, no, um, and then Christina set me up with someone at like Universal or something and he gave me a contact of someone at ICM, an agency.

And so I kind of got referred. And so by the time I was graduating, a month before I was graduating, I had a job set up at ICM partners, um, which no longer exists, uh, to start in their mail room. So that was my first like big girl job back in 2019. 

Camille: Nice. I do want to go back to you feeling represented on screen growing up.

What were some of 

Tamera: those shows? Yeah. Some of those shows were like, I mean, that's why I wanted thought I would maybe want to be in children's television because like a proud family or like a that's so Raven. I felt like. The weird girl, that's like very like out there, um, in a friend group, but also obviously black and, um, kind of being true to who she is.

And also like similar, like family dynamics. I just felt very represented and seen. And I definitely, once I got to college, I found my place and like found my community, but like growing up, it was really hard to fit in. And so that's where I escaped was like those shows and realizing who I could be. And like, I remember specifically Pretty Little Liars in high school, seeing my first, Female, gay character, um, And being like, what?

That's allowed? And like, oh my god, like, is that something that I want? And like, figuring out who I am, and just how important those shows are in those formative years. And so, that really impacted, stories I wanted to tell. 

Camille: Yeah. Nice. And then, When you said you were kind of testing out LA and you had a million coffees.

Yeah, 

Tamera: how 

Camille: did you find 

Tamera: those people? Um, I was that annoying person on LinkedIn. Okay. I was like, okay, no one's gonna just want to answer me Just like cold email like they don't know me. So I was like, okay I had to find like NYU people and like people who maybe were in Gallatin and just finding ways and like sometimes they referred me to other people.

So I had at least a dozen coffees with mostly writer's assistants and showrunner's assistants because I knew that that initially I was like that's the job I have to start with. How do I get there? And almost all of them got there from working at an agency. Or a management company. I think one got her first job as a writer's PA, but she had a connection to that.

And I just didn't have that. 

Camille: Yeah. Um, and so I didn't start in an agency. So I am always a little bit curious about it. Yeah. How was your agency experience? Terrible. Oh, sorry. That answers that. But maybe for the listener, for folks who maybe don't know, can you explain the difference between an agency and like a management company?

Tamera: I can try my best. Cause I haven't worked at a management company. Um, I think there's also just like some legal differences. Um, I think managers technically aren't allowed to like negotiate for their clients and like agencies can. Um, But agencies are usually bigger, usually. I mean, there are small agencies, um, so it gets into the technical, but I think managers are mostly, like, they're more close to their clients and, like, helping them form their careers and, like, working really closely, whereas agencies are usually more known for their bigger structures and more influence and connection.

Um, so some people have a combination of the both. Um, I will say, I have heard that even since, like, a few months after I left, that it has gotten better and the culture just posts, like, Me Too posts, you know, some abusive, like, executives and, um, agents being exposed, um, for their, you know, Inappropriate behavior.

Yeah, their behavior that just is not acceptable. Like, throwing staplers is not okay. Um, and so, I think it's much better now. But, I'm sure it's not perfect. But from my experience, did not love. Was not a big fan. Did not last long. Um, yeah. 

Camille: Yeah. Um, glad you I 

Tamera: will say, there was no staplers thrown at me.

These are just stories that I heard. I was yelled at a lot. There were tears. But I was not physically assaulted. So that is a win, I think. Right? Right. 

Camille: Um, uh, yes. And that is the lowest bar I've ever been in. Sorry. Um, 

Tamera: okay, awesome. Great. We'll leave that in the past. We can talk about the industry in the sense of like, You know the experience like what I learned whatever and how long I was there But it just definitely wasn't a great experience.

Yeah, but I think I needed it to get my next job So I'm not like saying it wasn't it was a waste because it wasn't 

Camille: yeah But still it's sucks that I I feel like that Reaction is and experience is So it's just, it's so trash that people feel like, yes, I did go through like the worst few months to a year of my life, but it got me here.

Like that shouldn't. 

Tamera: And I'm hoping it's better for people. I've heard some stories of still some asshole bosses. Um, but yeah, it sucks. And even when I was there and I was going through it because I'm like, this is your, a lot of times when you're at age C, this is your first like big girl job. And so you don't want to waste, you don't want to like mess up or like get, you know, You think that the agency you're working with have so much power and like, if I say anything they're going to ruin my career, so I just have to be quiet and then you're hearing from previous assistants being like, yeah, you got to just get through it.

Like they're just continuing that mentality, so you don't realize, feel like you have any options. 

Camille: Yeah. And so 

Tamera: definitely is a hard place to be because I was so young, you know? 

Camille: Yeah. And you don't know any better. Like, you don't know what's acceptable. You don't know what's normal. You don't know what your rights are, probably.

Tamera: Yeah. Um, and then you're like, you just get through that year. And you'll be fine. I did not make it to the year. Your girl made it eight months. And she was like, I, even 22 year olds, man, I was like, I'm done. I can't do this anymore. Let's find another route. And, honestly, huge props for doing that. Yes.

Go off queen. She was, she was killing it. She, she's had, she had enough. So yeah. 

Camille: Good. Okay. So fast forward. Yes. So you're working at a streamer as an assistant on the drama team. Yes. Um, so. In some cases, you're kind of like on that path, like you're doing what you said you wanted to do already at that stage, or you're at least like around the people who are doing the work that you wanted to do.

Yeah. Potentially. Yeah. This is on the corporate side. I know you want to be more creative, but yeah, you're there. Yes. And so at some point you decide this isn't getting you to where you actually want to be. Yeah. So when was the first time you remember thinking, um, I might need to get out of here. This isn't for me anymore.

Tamera: Well, I think it's like a big question because going back to the agency, like since I graduated, I knew I wanted to write. And I knew that agency was a stepping stone, right. To get to where I wanted. And I had to make a decision when I got this opportunity to work at the streamer being like, do I want to do that?

And yes, it's like, well paid. And yes, I'll kind of be adjacent. To writers, but I won't be doing exactly what I want. Like I know it's not gonna technically lead to what I want in a direct way. Or I could just try to find like a writer's pay job and like go get lunch. Because that's kind of what people do when they move up.

And so it was a really big decision. I decided like, Stable income would be really nice in the state of the industry at the time. And, um, I knew like, okay, I can at least like make connections, right? So I, that was back in 2019. And then once 2020 happened, I was like, I still have a job. I'm so lucky.

Like most of my friends in creative industry do not have that. And so I think just years and years went by and I was like, I'm still here. Like, Like I, I put a down payment on a condo. I was like, this is maybe this is the life I can live. And like, maybe I can see myself, I was trying to convince myself that, you know, one day in future Tamera, maybe she'll be a writer, but like, I can see myself maybe doing this track, but then like, 

Camille: and at that time, 

what was the track 

like, just 

Tamera: like an exact producer track, I knew it wasn't going to be a hundred percent happy, but I was like, I'm enjoying, like, now, you have other perks.

Yeah. I'm not worrying about money, which is like something I always grew up, kind of thinking I'll be worrying about. And so I just was comfortable. And I was working with a lot of my friends and, um, at the time I enjoyed the culture of where I was working and so I just was like, didn't feel a pressure to leave and it just, leaving meant, writing means you are living a life of, unless you have an overall deal somewhere, you are living a life of being freelance and like, job to job and that sounded really scary.

And so, it wasn't until the last year that I was there, so, what was that? The last full year I was there was 2022 because I think I left in January 2023. I think that makes sense. Um, yeah, that makes sense. Um, so near the end of 2022, we had gone through another layoff. I had gone through like three layoffs being at this place and I kept changing bosses.

I had, the entire time I was there, I had like five or six bosses. And so, Obviously, like, I was not interviewing with them. They did not interview with me. It just kind of, we were just placed there. And so, I just had to keep restarting relationships with people. So, it's like, how am I, first of all, how, if I want to get promoted, which I didn't know if I wanted to, how is that going to happen if I have to keep rebuilding these connections and proving myself?

Camille: Yeah. 

Tamera: And I just kept feeling like, oh wait, I keep proving myself and my ability to be a good assistant. And that's not what I want to be. That's not what I want to be. I don't want to be the best assistant. Like, that's a great job for some people, but I always have these creative dreams. And I just feel like less and less, they're becoming

a feasible option. And so near the end when I was like, okay, I don't have the same boss that I had before I'm starting over. I'm not as happy as I was before. Um, the culture here is kind of changing and I'm having even less creative influence on the shows that I'm working on as a junior exec kind of.

And so now why am I still here? Is it really just for the money? And so I started to think deeply, like, okay, I really want to keep writing. Um, That's still a dream, and I want to have as much impact on the show as possible. And I kept being jealous of the writers. I would read the scripts of the shows, and I was jealous that I was in the room.

I'm giving them notes, but why wasn't I in the room when I heard them break that story? And so I finally just had a lot of conversations, and, um, realized that, yeah, I've been unhappy for a while. It started out great, but now I'm really unhappy, and I just want to make that change. And once I finally decided I was going to leave, my mental health, was so much better and I just immediately knew that was the right decision.

I didn't have a job set up 

but 

Tamera: I just knew that something good was coming and I got lucky. But literally the day after I decided to leave, um, I reached out to one of my previous bosses who got laid off at one of these times of layoffs at this streamer and she got me a writer's assistant job. So it worked out.

Camille: Yeah, it worked out. But yeah, that the part that you were saying And we kind of talked about this earlier off air. Yeah. But it's, it's so real when you're like an achiever essentially. And you're trying to do a good job and do well where you are. But at the same time, you're like, And this isn't what I want to be doing. Yeah. And if I keep growing here, I'm going to grow into a place that I don't ultimately want to be. 

Tamera: Yeah. 

Camille: And so I totally feel you on the assistant thing. Yeah. Um, when I was an assistant, I remember having a development conversation with one of my managers and I'd already been in the role for probably two years, I want to say.

And. We were talking about how I can get better, how I can grow, and I was like, to be honest, I don't really have any interest in getting better at being an assistant. Yeah. 'cause it's not what I want to do. Yeah. And so it feels like a waste of time for me to try to keep getting even better at something that I ultimately don't want to do.

And so. I was trying to be delicate about it because I'm like, okay, I'm not trying to say I'm dropping the ball and, and obviously I don't want to come off like I'm, you know, I don't know, ungrateful or, or not interested in working anymore, but I'm like, I don't want to be such an amazing assistant because this isn't what I actually want to do.

Tamera: Exactly. It's, it's for some people, but if you realize, you're still, you feel, start to feel stuck and you're like, how can I actually, if we're like growing up being these overachievers and you feel like you reach a plateau. It's funny, I have actually the opposite. Um, one of my last bosses I had was a streamer.

Um, Um. We had a tough conversation because we like weren't getting, not getting along, but like it just, we were trying to figure out what worked for each other. At that time I'd been a assistant for years at that point. And we, um. I guess she had a different understanding of what I was doing and so she started to give me feedback of like where I was missing, like things I was missing and like how I could be a better assistant.

And I wanted to be like, what? First of all, I know I am the best assistant. I could ask you what works for you, but like not you teaching me, you haven't been assistant forever, teaching me what it takes to be this thing that I don't even want to be. And so when I started thinking, I was like, yeah, I could just be the best thing, like the best vision of what she wants.

I don't want to do this anymore. Like at that point I was like, now I'm being critiqued on this job that I can do sleeping. And so, yeah, it's a hard pill to swallow. But I think that was kind of also one of the moments where I was like, I can't do this anymore. 

Camille: Yeah. And actually I have seen and maybe experienced a little bit that being really good at your job that you're at that is to you a stepping stone, doesn't always help necessarily you get to the next step because, um, everyone has a lot going on.

Like everyone at the end of the day is like, I'm trying to look out for myself. I'm here to get my paycheck. And of course you have, um, great like mentors and people who are looking out for you. And I think, for the most part, everyone is trying to do their best and like, Helping or whatever. But at the end of the day, people are not watching you super, super closely.

And so a lot of times when you're very good at your job, it's like, great. My needs are met because my person on my team is doing what they need to do. They're not looking at it like, great, let me move them out of there. So I have to start fresh and figure out something else with someone else. And so I think a lot of times you can, like, Be super great at your job.

And then that almost not backfires, but like ends up keeping you there even longer. 

Tamera: 100%. I mean, it depends on your, who your boss is, right? Like I had some mentors that maybe you would have done that, thinking about that, but they kept getting laid off. So, you know, some people, yeah, they just focus on their business and, and they see their assistant as someone helping their business.

I mean, I think that's a quote I literally got, you know, if you're doing well, I'm doing well. And like, it's not really thinking about you as actual, Not as a person, I'm sure they think you as a person, but they don't see you as like, Oh, I need it. Some people just aren't meant to be mentors.

They're just, they don't see it that way. They've gotten to where they are. And so they just assume that you'll find your way there on your own. And so I do, I do feel lucky. My current boss does seem like that. She's like, she's like, I remember being an assistant. I know how hard it is. Like, I like to get my assistants promoted.

And when I heard that, I think she said that in my interview. And I was like, this is crazy. This is not something people talk about. So it's very rare. 

Camille: Yeah. Yeah. And also just to be clear, I'm not advocating for. Not doing a good job, but I'm saying like, I think there is a certain point where it's like, I am at the top of my game and there's always room for improvement where I can excel past that still in that same role.

And sometimes if you're not clear with your team about what you want and, and expectations on both sides for how to get there and still be successful where you're at at the time, sometimes it like feels a little painful. 

Tamera: No, yeah, and I'm not, and honestly, I don't want to be negative, but like, it really just depends the state on your company and if they're hiring or if they're even thinking about hiring within versus hiring externally.

Sometimes you can be a really good assistant and some people are like, wow, we want to promote you. Others are, other times it's like, you're being a really good assistant, we don't really have assistants. Do extra work to prove themselves that they could do another job. They stay in the assistant role.

And so you don't have, sometimes you don't have opportunity to show that you are worthy of breaking out of that role. And they're like, you know what? You're doing really good at this assistant role. I want to keep you here. You know, it takes a lot to convince them that you are worthy of more. And I think a lot of us.

I was a very overachiever and like I was so good at like working hard getting the next internship getting the best thing like And so when you hit this part where you kind of feel like you're plateauing and you don't know the best option out It can be really frustrating

Camille: okay, so you mentioned as soon as you quit, you basically already were lined up for your next thing. Yeah, I was very lucky. Obviously. I feel like that's kind of like, Oh, wink, wink your head in the right direction. Yes, totally. It was a very good 

Tamera: feeling. 

Camille: And so, um, but did you have any downtime? Do you kind of went straight into the next day?

Tamera: No, I literally, my last day was that Friday and I was starting the next job that Monday. Which I was annoyed because that was my birthday week. And I had to like, I hate, this happened to me twice now. I start new jobs, and no one knows me. And they're like, happy birthday! And it's so awkward, and I love birthdays, and I never feel special.

But yes, it was a very, that was a tangent. But it was very, yeah, no break, no break. 

Camille: That is rough on the break and the birthday. I've been two years in a row. It's so awkward. Like, they don't, they don't care about me yet, but it's fine. Did you, so obviously you went straight into the next thing. Yeah.

But when you're about to quit, not knowing that thing was going to be right there. Right. 

Tamera: Yeah. 

Camille: Did you feel safe when you quit? Like finances or like other? Safety nuts or you were like it does not matter I'm gonna have to figure this out because I just need to do this for myself 

Tamera: I was Financially fine for a few months is what I will say so I had like four months if I would give you exact number of um safety blanket.

So yeah, I was, I was okay for the next four months with savings. 

Camille: Okay. And then also, which made it easier to like make that decision. That's good. And in our other conversations, just like in life, you seem to have a really strong career support system. And so like with staying connected with old managers and mentors, you even mentioned it on this show.

Call already. So is this like a thing that comes naturally to you or did you learn it somewhere? And did that help at all? And kind of. Besides the finances making you feel like I'm making the right decision. I'll be able to figure this out. I have options. 

Tamera: Yeah. It's a hard question because like I try my best.

I feel it's really hard to keep those connections alive organically. Um, cause sometimes I would just be like, Hey, just update. This is what I'm doing. Hope you're doing well. Cause I don't want to feel like I'm only reaching out to them cause I need something. And so, Yeah, I try my best to like check in and have coffees and stuff with them, like every year or so.

Um, I will say as the years have gone on recently, I've been trying to do that now, like proactively, and they get busy and then it's hard not to take it personally. I'm like, wait, are you ghosting me on purpose? Or you just didn't see the message? Um, but yeah, I try my best. I learned that yeah, back in college of keeping in context.

I've been trying, in the, in like, in internships, people telling me like, stay in touch, and I just, choosing to believe them, right? Like they want you to, um. They're not just saying it for nothing. 

Camille: Yeah. I really like that you said that. What? Choosing to believe them. Yeah. Because I can often go and kind of like, um, they just said that.

They just said that! Or like, oh, they said that because they had to, but I'm bothering them. Yeah. They don't really care. I'm not doing anything. They don't really care. 

Tamera: That's the thing, it's like, If I'm bothering you by saying an email, like, every, like, six months, like, then you get bothered really easily.

That's, like, really, you should get that checked, you know? I, you have to remember, like, it's okay. We're allowed to do that. That's the, everyone knows that's how the industry is. And yeah, I'm easier said than done sometimes. I'm like, oh my god, like, okay, they didn't respond the last two times. Okay, last hurrah, you know, and that's okay.

And then you move on to the next, you know. But trying the best to stay connected because yeah, that's how I got that first job after the streamer. Um, yeah, it was a Hallmark show. And, um, the, one of the bosses I had, she got let go back in a big layoff back in 2020. And so I had, I tried to keep in contact with her.

And so literally I emailed her and immediately she was like, Oh my God, what a coincidence. We're looking for a writer's assistant right now. So if I had not reached out to her, I might've still been looking for a job. 

Camille: And when you reached out, was it like, Hey, I'm leaving. Keep me in the loop. Or was it like, Hey, just checking in once.

Here you are. 

Tamera: I was like, Hey, um, checking in, hope you're doing well. Uh, just give me, I know I said it. I was like, just give me update. Like I'm finally leaving. Cause she knew I wanted to be a writer. Cause I, after a while I started being honest about that. Cause once I got in there, at the, at the company, I was like, why am I lying?

Um, And so I was like finally making the jump to writing and looking for writer's assistant or show writer's assistant positions. If you ever hear anything, please let me know. And she did. Cause I was like, why just be general? And there's no, there's no reason for her to respond right away if it's like a really general thing.

Um, but if it's, if there's, it's actionable and she can actually loop me in, that'd be great. So yeah, it worked out. 

Camille: Yeah. Wanting to be a writer at the end of the day when you were Before you quit your, regular nine to five, and then also in the time after that, when you had a different kind of schedule, what were you doing to kind of keep pursuing that?

Obviously in your day to day, you're still making connections, still in the space of this creative, but did you put yourself on a writing schedule or, what were you doing to be like, I am being so intentional about pursuing this now. Like, this is what I'm doing with, um, My life and my future.

Tamera: You mean when I was at the company or do you When I, when I left and was at my new job as a writer's assistant. 

Camille: Both. So just as soon as you made the decision that you're like, I'm committing to this. Yeah. I'm pursuing this. This is my dream. I'm going after it. Yeah. Did you kind of have yourself on? 

Tamera: Yeah, so like it was, I decided I was leaving during the holidays, um, so like December, 2022 and as soon as I decided I was leaving and made that decision.

I was confident in that decision. It was so much weight off my shoulders. I finally felt less anxious and so much more happy and had so much clarity. And I hadn't actually consistently written. It had been so long, and then I immediately was churning out, like, I, I think I, Made the first draft of my, one of my pilots, um, very quickly because I think, yeah, I had a creative block because I just was just so stressed all the time and clearly unhappy.

And I just didn't know what was wrong. Too many distractions. And then as soon as, yeah, as soon as I made that decision, I was much more productive on the writing side. Um, cause yeah, I think being at the company for like three and a half years, I barely wrote anything. I was like, yeah, I'm a writer, but like, am I, that's kind of why I also was convincing myself of maybe a potential other career path because I just wasn't writing.

Um, but yeah, so it really helped. Um, I will say I've never, I still have never figured out the writing schedule thing. Um, 

Camille: well, some people don't need it. 

Tamera: Yeah. 

Camille: Or 

Tamera: use it. No, I should have one. Um, but yeah, so that's how that happened. And then I will say like, That was during the break, right, while I was back at work and still doing work.

It was hard for me to not be drained from work and feel motivated to write. Um, and then when I first started the writing assistant job, it was a lot of work. And so, when you're finally free, and it's long days, so when you're finally free, it's kind of just, you want that time for yourself. Yeah, just rest.

Yeah, but I definitely had a resurgence in energy to write once I finally made that decision. I forgot about that. Yes. 

Camille: Nice. Okay. So now I want to talk about your current role as a showrunner's assistant. First, could you just explain what actually first what a showrunner is? And then second, how your role plays into the process of a show coming to life.

And then, Just kind of want to know what like roles and responsibilities, but also what your day to day looks like. 

Tamera: Yeah. So a showrunner, to my best knowledge, uh, runs the show. Um, they sometimes are the creator of the show, but not always. So in my case, my showrunner is not the creator. Um, basically they generally are the boss.

Um, it's their, they're a main producer of the show. Um, they kind of keep things moving. So you make sure that In the writer's room, they're usually running the room. Um, so there's usually like free flowing conversation in the room. But they'll, it always, all the stories have to be kind of approved by the showrunner.

It's like, it makes sure that the creator and the showrunner's vision is, um, followed. And then once prep and production starts, they're one of the lead people in conversation for, you know, approving directors, approving, um, additional producers. Um, And they kind of just are around running set, basically.

Yeah, they're like 

Camille: in charge of bringing, making sure everything stays on track, but actually bringing this to life. 

Tamera: Yes, they're the first person that the creative executives and producers call. they, it's kind of all on them. You need a strong leader. They are a leader. Um, and, uh, yeah, from my knowledge, that's kind of the gist.

And, um, any questions come up, like, they're gonna, they're gonna ask them. Because it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, the reason I'm struggling to, to explain it is because sometimes the creator and the showrunner are the same person. And it's easy to say that, but obviously if you're not Um, the creator, it's like a combination of the two, like making sure both of their visions come to life.

Camille: And the creator's like, I had this original idea. Yeah. And maybe wrote the pilot. Yes. And then So basically 

Tamera: what happened in my show right now, which is a very common thing, is that the creator, um, is their pilot. It's their idea, it's their vision, it's their voice. And the pilot's the first script of the show that kind of sets the tone.

Yes, the first script of the show. And so, they're the ones that like probably pitched it, all these things. Um, and a lot of times when they're not the show owner is because they're usually a first time creator. So, this person on my show has never really worked in TV before. Um, and so they need, usually when it happens, they need help.

Sometimes, rarely, they get to be showrunner, but usually, like, okay, cool, we're going to find you a showrunner who has experience that we make sure this show is a success, and they'll kind of be a partner with you. And their job is not to make it their show, it's to still bring your idea to life, but they have the experience.

And so that's kind of how my, my show, my boss, the showrunner, she's been the showrunner, um, of multiple shows, and so she has that experience, so they kind of have a partnership. Um, so they're both the bosses, I guess. Um, And then what was the second question? Your role. So, yeah, my first job last year as, when I pursued writing, was writer's assistant.

Now, I'm kind of showrunner's assistant and writer's assistant, so on this show I got hired. Like I said, I'm overqualified. I, um, I'm overqualified for the showrunner assistant role, so I wanted the writer assistant role, but it was between me and someone else, and she got it, because she had more experience in that role.

And so, I started out just as the showrunner assistant, so my job is literally just to assist the showrunner, anything she needs, with her schedule, um, I did, like, this is not really, maybe a part of my job, but, because we didn't have researchers, so I did a lot of research for the room, um, and so that was really helpful, um, And then once that writer's assistant left early, I took on her role.

So now, since then, I've been kind of a combo. I've been an assistant. assisting the showrunner and also the writer's assistant. What the writer's assistant is, is usually you're just hired during the duration of the writer's room. And so basically in the writer's room, there's uh, a good amount of writers.

It could range from being three writers to ten writers to twenty writers. We had I think about six or seven writers in the room. led by the showrunner and the creator, and the writer's assistant's job is to be a scribe. You write down everything that everyone's saying, you make sure to note which ideas landed, meaning, like, connected with the showrunner and creator, and which ones didn't.

If they're like, oh yeah, I love that idea, okay, I'm voting that, you know? Versus, you know, Because people are constantly pitching ideas and some work and some don't. But you want to make sure you get it all down because they'll be like, Oh, what did so and so say earlier? So you just have to like have it all down.

And then the rest of your night for hours is organizing all those notes, making sure they're digestible and then sending them out to everyone. And then by the time everyone has their episode, you make a document for them. So they know that like once they're writing, they have all the information they need.

It depends on the room. Depending on who the boss is, they let you pitch as well, pitch ideas in the room. And other showrunners are more like, just stick to your job. So it kind of just depends on the, the environment. 

Camille: And does that look like You've been approved to pitch. Yeah. And so then you can just speak up, or will they be like, Tamera, do you have anything?

Tamera: It really depends on the room. Sometimes it's just like, I mean, you have to be smart about when you're sharing, right? You're not going to just, first of all, you're never going to interrupt people. Also, if it feels like there's a flow, um, you don't want to interrupt that. But if there's ever a lull where no one's speaking and you have something, um, and you're allowed to pitch, then you can do that.

Um, and, you know, It depends, like this is a limited series I'm working on, but like, especially if there's, if it's potential a season two, you want to like pitch, because the reason why I prefer a writer's assistant over show writer's assistant is because usually, writer's assistant, if there's going to be a promotion, you will get promoted to do your first staff writing gig.

And once you have that first staff writing gig, that's the first step. Um, you probably don't want to be assistant ever again, you know, you want to keep getting promoted as a writer. And so if you're pitching, they can realize, Oh, you're actually a valuable person in the room. Um, and so, yeah. 

Camille: And then the process, because you said when everyone gets their episodes, basically everyone's together figuring out what's going to happen over the course of the season?

Yes. And then It starts out 

Tamera: with Blue Sky Week. In the beginning, it's like, blue sky, just like, big ideas, what are things we want to see in the whole, the whole, um, show. And then, then they start being, okay, this is episode two, this is episode three. And that whole week or two weeks is about breaking the story and figuring out all the storylines and things for that specific episode.

And then, eventually during that process, each episode is assigned to a specific writer. 

Camille: Mm hmm. Cool. 

Tamera: Thank 

Camille: you. Yeah. So, how picky were you in choosing this opportunity? Were you like, Um, I'm not really that excited about this show. I'm gonna move on to the next one. Oh, this one sounds good. Or were you like, I'll take anything and everything.

Don't care what it is.

Tamera: I wouldn't say I wouldn't take, I would say anything and everything. Um, but I was closer to that side of the mark because I, it is, it's still after the strike been a rough time and a little bit post strike, my unemployment had run out because yeah, my last job for the Hallmark show, once the strike started May 1st, like the job ended.

And so I was unemployed. I never, since I was 16 had no job. And so it was really hard. And once my unemployment ran out, which was barely anything. I was like doing Uber Eats. I was like, what am I doing? Can I survive in this industry? Should I just go home and quit? I went through every like mental health, like I was so stressed.

And so I was just really wanting a job. And once the strike ended, it wasn't like, Oh, everyone's like 

Camille: flooding 

Tamera: back, flooding, like Tamera, we have a job for you. No, it was everyone was looking for a job. And so it was so competitive. And so I knew I could not be picky, but I also didn't want to take something that I didn't deserve.

And so I was like, I actually got really lucky. I got referred for a writer's paid job, which is the lowest role, and it's like the entry level role, I should say, not lowest, the entry level role, um, on a show, and your job is basically to go out and get lunch, um, and like make sure the kitchen is stocked and things, and I got referred for a role for that, and I was like, I am overqualified for that, I have been a assistant for so long, that it's something people can get out of college, and And so, but I got, I went for it because I need a job.

And I got beat out by someone with much less experience. And I was like, what? So now I'm overqualified for this job, but I can't get a job that I deserve. Like what's going on. And I was so stressed. And so. I finally, from the streamer, uh, someone who I used to work with in production, um, emailed me saying like, Hey, I heard you're available.

'cause I have a friend who, who works there and she gave them my resume and she's like, we have a showrunner's assistant position on a show. Do you want an interview? And I was like, you know what? I know I feel quote unquote overqualified for this. I really want writer's assistance 'cause that's closer to getting to what I want.

I left this cushy job, like I know this is gonna be lower pay, but I said, you know what? Sure. And then when the showrunner, who I ended up working with, uh, saw my resume, she was like, Oh, Tamera has been a writer's assistant before. How about we interview her for that role? And I was like, Oh! So my hopes got up.

I was like, Oh my God, yes! That's what I want. And then when she met me, she loved me, but she was like, Listen, I'm not the creator. So I'm gonna Give you high praise, but I'm, I, it's gonna be the creator's final decision. And his final decision was the other girl. But she was like, but I would love for you to work for me.

And so I thought about it for a day. And I realized, you know what, this woman seems amazing. It seems like she really cares about assistants and helping them grow. And it's a job and I have, I don't have nobody else knocking on my door. So I decided to take it and I have no regrets because I ended up being the right assistant anyway.

Um, but yeah, 

Camille: that's awesome. I know you said you feel, felt immediately more energized once you were like, I'm trying, I'm pursuing what I've always wanted to do. But also when you were talking about specifically once you became the writer's assistant, it sounds like. a lot of work and energy, especially outside of the normal hours of the job.

Yeah. So do you still feel that energy for your own work or does it feel like, well, right now I'm focused on this and it's still pushing me forward because I'm getting this experience. I'm in the room, I'm working with writers, but I just don't have as much time to focus on my own thing. Or have you been able to balance that?

Tamera: That's a complicated question because of the state of where I'm at. So. I was, and I still do take notes sometimes, but because we're in a weird fluxing, where the writer's room is technically over, but we're still, my bosses are still working on material, and we're not in pre production yet, it's a weird place where it's like, I'm not, when I'm a writer's assistant, yeah, there's no, I mean, I don't know how people are writer's assistants and working on their own stuff, because you could be there till sometimes 11pm, midnight, cleaning up notes, and so, in that sense, no, I had no time.

But now, there's a lot of days where they don't really need me. They only need me when they're like, having an issue and they want to talk through stuff and then I jump on the zoom and um, take notes and then yeah that day is pretty busy but for the most part I'm just really showrunner's assistant right now and it's just scheduling which I do in my sleep and so I've definitely had more flexibility but yeah if I get if this job ends which I hope it doesn't but it might um and I have to find another job and if I get a writer's assistant job I just know like for those like 20 weeks it's gonna be really hard to find time so I'm taking advantage right now and writing as much as I can right now um yeah 

Camille: good So you've kind of come full circle now.

You literally have your own agent, which is Oh, yeah, so cool. So did your previous agency experience starting in the mail room impact the way you decide to work with your current agent? And is that experience something that shapes the way you plan to continue building out your management team? 

Tamera: I don't think I've thought of it that way.

That's an interesting question. I mean, I will say like when I wasn't, okay, so when people are like deciding who their agent is or whatever, um, sometimes they have multiple options because they're like a hot commodity. She was my only option, but it was very important to me that she was a good person and I think, I feel like I'm really good judgment of character and I can read people really well because obviously, for example, my previous boss wasn't the best, um, and I didn't think she treated me that well.

But obviously she's not going to be mean to her clients. So they don't see that side of her. 

Camille: Right. 

Tamera: But I just felt like I had met, this was an organic relationship because I met my agent previously. Before we knew that this relationship was gonna happen, and so I knew she was a good person. And before she 

Camille: was even an agent, right?

Exactly. 

Tamera: And, uh, and she knew, she knew I had a goal of writing, and I was just very open with her, and it just felt like it was very easy to talk to her, and I really wanted someone who was repping me to like, We can be both be very direct because she knew that I I've worked in it development she knows I know how the business is and so we can be very frank with one another But also feel like she's a genuinely good person.

And so that was really important to me But besides that I mean, yeah, I don't really have many other options But it's been really going really well. Um, I haven't gotten a job not many options yet Exactly. I've got a job yet from it, but I mean, we're working on material, right? She helped me get one of my first scripts that I wrote into a really good place.

And she's been sending that around and setting me up with getting me general meetings, which basically means like you get a meeting, mostly likely on Zoom these days with an executive or a producer, and they just get to know you. And then if they like you, they've read your stuff. If they have a writer's room coming up, they'll, you put you in the mix.

And so, she's gotten me a couple of those, which has been nice, and she's helped me get my one script in good place, and now I'm still working on her notes for another one. So, in that case, she's putting in the work to help me, and it just, honestly, just having someone whose job it is to help you and, like, be invested in your, um, career, because, if you do well, they do well, is a, is a cool thing.

Camille: Yeah. Actually, now that you bring up the meetings with the executives, and you just kind of, literally just like, talk about yourself and get to know each other to see like, oh, is there something, do I have a project maybe you could be on?

Yeah. Should we keep this relationship going? Yeah. Because in the future there might be something. So yeah. And a lot of being a writer is bringing your own experiences, your own perspective to something, creating something new or just putting a different lens on something that someone else has already created.

Tamera: Yeah. 

Camille: So how does your identity come into play in These like generals. And then also when you're kind of like pitching your take on things to be like, I'm unique and I can bring something that other people can't bring. And then I'm also curious, kind of in that vein, if there's, if you ever, ever feel pressured to, kind of like downplay certain parts of you because you're like, Oh, this doesn't really feel like that's what they're looking for right now.

Tamera: Interesting. That was like a three parter Camille. I'm overwhelmed, but, um, take what you want. Uh, I will say, I think the part two of your question is hard for me because I'm not there yet. Like pitching yourself for a show, right? Like that's, I'm not pitching myself for a specific show yet. I'm not at that point, but for the other parts of like how my identity comes to play right in these generals, I've only had.

Very few so far, but you've had some, but the ones I've had, yeah, it's, I think I definitely ended identity words. Identity does come into play because, okay, the industry has been in different situations, right? Sometimes in the industry, it's like, we want diverse voices, you know, we want different perspectives.

And then other parts of the times in industry, it's like, that is not that important. Like you never know where the state of the industry is, but you want to just. Make sure they know, everything about your identity, your upbringing it's weird. 

Camille: Anything that might connect to something. Yeah, 

Tamera: yeah, and you don't know what's on their slate, right?

And you can ask, but they'll just give you the logline, the, you know, um, what the show's about. They might not tell you oh, character's in there that, you could really relate to. So, you don't know all that, so you kind of have to just show. The most of yourself. And so I definitely talk about my identity and where I'm from, um, and you know, grew up in a single mom household.

I let them know I went to Quaker school. You know, if it was a Quaker show, I got that experience. Like I thought everything, um, to make sure they know, I am a unique individual and I can bring those things. I try, I forget sometimes I try to bring in like mental health as well. Anything that I can think about, like I'm passionate about or different parts of myself that I want to be seen.

To be seen on shows, hoping that they can, um, find a show that I could fit in. Um, because yeah, you, it's, it's, it's, it's one thing I'm stressed about once I finally get that job. First gig is you have to keep pitching. I mean, it's also your agent's job to pitch you, right? But yeah, when you're in that room, you have to make sure they know that they need me in that writer's room they don't have anyone like me and you know, there's lots of people like you like you everyone's different But when you think of like, oh, what's your archetype like there are other people that will fill some of those boxes And so kind of finding a way to make you yourself unique is a little stressful because you also don't want to be like hey These are all the things that make me unique like You don't want a trauma dump, you're just meeting this person for the first time, so you kind of find that balance.

Camille: Yeah, well actually, originally I asked if there's anything you kind of find yourself downplaying about your identity. Oh yeah, I forgot. But actually, in you saying that, I'm like, do you ever feel like you're kind of tokenizing yourself? 

Tamera: Of course, 

yeah. I mean to be fair, like my, all my writing, you know.

For the most part has like queer elements. And so I feel like I don't even, I don't even need to say it because it's there, it's there. I want to talk about things I enjoy. I talk like different like things in the queer community. So I feel like it's not, I'm not like tokenizing myself in that way.

Cause that's just, it is what it is. And they can see me and they know I'm black, you know? So in that sense, not that, it's more of like finding other ways to show from my specific background, how I can, um, be unique, a unique part of a room. Um, so I guess I'm not really downplaying in anything. Yeah, because that's not the time to downplay.

Yeah. Because this is the only, this might be the only chance you get to get them to, for them to get to know you. 

Camille: Yeah. And then obviously you Never could have known, like, how long the strikes would last. Yeah, it's awful. And we can never really predict, how those things will affect us directly. But, knowing what you know now, is there anything that you would have done differently in, like, your path so far?

Tamera: No. I'm not expecting you to say yes, so I feel like I feel like things worked out for Tamera. So Eventually, right like there were I mean all I would do is be like Tamera Don't worry on this exact date You will get an interview and it'll be fine because I was just freaking out and like really stressed and depressed But besides that I mean it did work.

I got really lucky I know people who are still looking for a job from the strike and I got really lucky. So I don't think so 

Camille: Yeah, actually do you have mentioned what? A lot of like stress and anxiety and mental health stuff. Yeah. So how do you manage that in the unknown? Because it's, it's obviously worth it where you're like, I'm doing this for a reason.

But when you're in the middle of that unknown TBD space. Yeah. I think it is hard to hang on to that like, Something will work out because you really don't know. You don't 

Tamera: know. 

Camille: So, how do you manage 

Tamera: that? Medication. Not self prescribed, okay? Prescribed by a psychiatrist, a really gifted psychiatrist.

Um, No, no, I've been medicated for like, since 2017. So, uh, So I'm still anxious. It just, it manages it to not an extreme. Um, You know, I don't know. I don't think I handled it well. I was really stressed. I mean, just calling my mom and being like her being like, it's going to be okay. Like it always works out for you.

Um, but it got really hard. Um, it's just staying motivated, you know, making sure I'm spending time with friends and reminding myself. It's hard. It's a, what is it? A double edged sword? Like it's, it's hard because it's really comforting to know a lot of other people are going through this, but then the other side is like, Oh no, it's really competitive because a lot of other people are going through this and so um, Yeah, it was hard.

I don't have any good advice because I Eventually got a job and I but I I won't say it was By chance, right? Like, I got this job because I was sending all of my friends who I knew from, from jobs I've had, um, and just friendships I made, like, I sent them all my resume. It's not like I was just waiting for something to happen.

And the reason why I got this job was because of one of the resumes that were sent out. So it's not like, um, it just happened. And. Oh, yeah. Also, I tempt before that. I forgot. I tempt a universal for like a month before this I did make it happen I think just not giving up and just keep applying really helped me But I don't want to say that luck and timing didn't put play put what is the word luck and timing didn't have a factor Because it did yeah, 

Camille: but I think you can still Take credit for that like even if I said partial credit, but I think 

Tamera: luck in this industry luck and timing is a big part of it It's a price now all of it.

It's part of it. Yeah You 

Camille: Yeah, but you definitely got yourself in the position to be ready for when Yes stuff came around. Yeah, and you were working on your own stuff. And also I do think you do a great job of Just being on the personal side of things like staying connected with friends. Yeah, you have Extracurriculars that you're doing.

I feel like you're pretty tapped into just like Events that are happening and I feel like that kind of 

Tamera: oh, yeah kickball save save me I was like, at least I have kickball to look forward. I did the finding that was looking forward to To distract myself because otherwise all you have is your thoughts and that's a scary place, ain't it?

Camille: Yeah Okay, and then you do you have like one to two? Pro tips that you would give someone who's currently considering quitting their job to pursue their passion more directly. 

Tamera: It's hard because I think it really depends on your current circumstance. As I said before, I knew I was going to be, I mean, at the strike, I was not financially okay, but during the period of time before my first job after the streamer, um, I was like, for the next four months, I will be Okay, right?

Like I have that amount of time and I know some people who have done it where it's like I knew for six months, right? Like I will be okay. I think that's just like responsible, you know, I don't want to be like, yeah, just leave your job. And if you're poor, that's fine. Go for it. that's just not a responsible thing.

That's not how I grew up. So I just can't say that with my chest 

Camille: and you don't need to, 

Tamera: but I think if you can figure out a way to have, to believe in yourself and bet on yourself, um, then yeah. Just, just make sure you save up enough money for at least three or four months, um, and then, then go for it.

And make sure that you have not just, like, gone out into, make sure you have connections set up, right? Like, before you leave, you should be setting up. Your next options because I think the only reason why I felt comfortable is that I had worked with so many different people and I've been Building my network so I had people to reach out to and to send my resume if I didn't have that I would just be clueless So setting yourself up for success before you make that jump and making sure that you have a little bit of wiggle room financially But I think you should do it.

I think it was What's his name? John Krasinski, who almost gave up, acting because it just wasn't working out, but he just bet on himself, um, and eventually, right before he was about to quit, like, it happens, so, you just have to bet on yourself, and it's scary, but you just have to. Yeah, 

Camille: I think the same with Anika Noni Rose.

I think she had, like, Dollars yeah in her account when she booked dream girls or something. Yeah, 

Tamera: it happens and that's the thing like she was running out But she had she had saved up. I'm sure like it might it doesn't think I got really lucky, right? It just happened right away It could have taken one month two months six months and then I would have to read adjust and reassess what my options are But if you don't bet on yourself, no one's going to so 

Camille: very true.

Is there anything that came up when you were either in conversations with people or after you quit around this, that you were like, Oh, I didn't think about that. That's a good question. Or team 

Tamera: example. 

Camille: Um, maybe just like, even if you're like, Oh, my relationship with the job I'm leaving, like, will this negatively or positively affect or like, can I still lean on them for this?

Things like that, where it's like, They're not really involved in your decision because they're not the priority. And maybe you didn't feel supported while you were there either, but then it's like, we're still in the same industry. The industry is small. Yeah. So did anything like just kind of random come up that you're like, Oh, I mean, Or a 

Tamera: positive thing.

That was more of a negative thing. I mean, honestly, I don't know. But something that you said that made me think of something was, I was there for a while. Right. But because of so many layoffs, some people left. Right. And, um, I was trying to keep connected with them. Right. But the people that are still there, once you're not, once you have your last day and you leave and you're no longer in a building with them, Constantly it changes things and I didn't realize how much it would change people I thought we would talk all the time and would bond and, you know, it kind of fizzled and so I try to stay in touch with some of them and make sure they still know I'm alive and but it's not as easy as I thought it would be and so it's like, I don't think, it wasn't a waste of time, right? Obviously I still have connections, so it's great, but I think, Those relationships of people still there hasn't had as much of an impact that I thought it would and that's okay, right?

I have the people that I need But it's it's it's hard when you're like, wow, I put so much work and years there and then suddenly You don't talk to these people at all. You just see them sometimes on Instagram So yeah, that was like a tough pill to swallow like it is what it is. Yeah, but it's definitely was a surprising 

Camille: Yeah 

Tamera: thing 

Camille: And then is there anything you want to cover that we haven't discussed yet?

Or anything you want to say. 

Tamera: You have a great podcast. I mean these these questions were just so good. I mean, I was thinking about things. I haven't thought about a long time. Um, but I don't know. Is there anything else that you, you wanted to ask me? 

Camille: Well, my question for everyone at the end of their episode for this season is what keeps you up at night, industry or otherwise?

And that's really the last thing that I'm gonna ask you. 

Tamera: What keeps me up at night usually has nothing to do with the industry. It's just like my, my social life, my things in my head. Um, my anxiety. Um, For the industry, what keeps me up at night? 

Camille: It's industry or otherwise, so it doesn't have to be specific to the industry.

Tamera: Well, we don't gotta talk about my love life, girl, so. Um, cause that's what keeps me up at night. Um, I mean, I just, knowing, I think just like not, the unknown of when the, when the, quote unquote industry will bounce back, right? People keep saying survive till 25. Like that is so depressing. And like, we almost at 25 and I don't, I think we still surviving.

So I don't know when it's going to bounce back too. Cause a couple of years ago, it was just the most streamers ever, the most opportunity ever. And suddenly it's like hardly any opportunity out there. And it's slowly more and more writer's rooms are happening, but it's still pretty scarce. And so it makes me nervous because right now I don't know if my current contract is going to end.

And, um, I don't know when it's going to end. It might end in like three months. And not knowing if I'll have another job after that is always going to be something like as a writer and freelance, it's always going to be something in the back of my mind to like just financially survive. Um, so that's always something in the back of my mind, but right now I'm okay.

Camille: Yeah. And then I don't know if I'll keep this in, but when you say the industry bouncing back, it's basically like post pandemic people are, we're naturally watching less than they were in the pandemic when everyone was stuck at home and then. Went through the strikes, and so I think there's kind of a sense of that scaring a lot of execs in big companies to be like, one, there's scarcity of eyeballs, like viewers, to some extent, and then with that being like, oh now I'm scared to take more risks.

Mm hmm. So then I think the backlash toward the industry has felt like With fewer risks, there are not as many, um, deals being made with, shows that are newer and, feel different and are a risk because there is no proven model that this exact type of show has been successful in the past, which naturally means that a lot of underrepresented content is not really getting greenlit and, getting the budgets that they deserve and then getting the support in the writers rooms and, um, In this industry, a lot of deep projects will get to a certain point, but never actually get on screen.

Mm hmm. And so, we're having trouble kind of getting those things actually out the door and on screen. 100%. And so, is that basically just contextualizing? Is that what you meant? 

Tamera: Yeah, I mean, you had a ten minute explanation. No, you had a like Yeah, for sure. I think generally, yeah, the big thing, I mean, is that, but also just like, yeah, because there's just less things being made because of less risk being taken.

And also there's been so many companies merging, right? So many companies being sold so many, like, I think Max doesn't barely makes any shows anymore. There's less opportunity. And because there's less opportunity and they're making less stuff, they're being less risky because they're like, okay, well, we're making so many less shows, what we put out needs to be perfect, right?

And so, there's definitely going to be taking less risk on, you know, maybe new type showrunners or new creators who haven't been seen yet, so they don't know if it's going to go well. Um, but that's the bigger side of it. For little baby writers like me, it's also like, okay, hopefully I'll get a job in the few shows that come out.

But also, if I want to get promoted as a staff writer, it's harder and harder for young baby writers to get jobs right now, or mid level writers. A lot of writers rooms, and it's still a battle that's happening. Even in the room I just worked in, um, it was mostly upper level writers, people who have showrun before.

So many of them were upper level, because they're like, well, we don't have to take a risk on them. We know that they're going to do well. And it's like We don't have time to like, because it's a short run, we don't have time to like, train a younger writer. And so there's so many younger writers and mid level writers that can't find jobs because they won't be bet on.

Um, and they see them as a risk, which is a really big problem. Um, because, okay, you know, We're not going to have a whole industry of upper level writers like okay when they're done Who's going to be the next generation and so that's also a scary thing for me because a lot of rooms Even if they have mid level writers They don't have a staff writer or they have one and then they just don't go have one staff writer to get their quota and Then they have all upper levels And so that's a next step once I get promoted of knowing like what my options are gonna be Because that's a good point you said about risk and these companies just don't And it gets problematic of like what that means and who's a risk.

Camille: Right. Right? Like you don't want to 

Tamera: feel like you're a risk. Right. Um, so yeah, that's another thing we'll see. 

Camille: Yeah. 

Tamera: Yeah. 

Camille: Well. We're rooting for you. 

Tamera: Thanks, girl. I'm rooting for me, too. Um, I 

Camille: can't 

Tamera: wait to do an update of like, yeah, 

Camille: her episode's on Skype! Oh, I can't 

Tamera: wait. It's happening. We know it's gonna happen.

It's gonna 

Camille: happen. 

Tamera: Um, they just, they got, they're not ready for me yet for some reason, um, but I'll be knocking. 

I'm knocking on the door, 

Camille: so. Keep knocking. Yes. Well, thank you for being here. I really I had so much fun! Appreciate it. Of course. And I appreciate you. I'm, I'm Not to maybe sound like condescending, but I am very proud of you.

Like you're doing the thing and, um, it's exciting to watch. It's exciting to watch. And I like, I think you're doing so much. At this level, that is cool. And part of this podcast, I want people to see you at this level before it's like showrunner Tamera and it's like, I made it, but it's like, let's talk about this middle space where you're like, I am working and things are happening and you're, you're on the path.

Tamera: Thank you for saying that. And I want to be frank just because I'm 27 and I am still an assistant and I think that's okay. I'm proud of myself. I think people as an overachiever, you have this like view of where you're going to be. I thought I would be writing, writing in a room right now.

And like, I don't want that to seem like a failure. Everyone has different paths. Everyone gets there at different stages. And the industry is, Crazy right now. So like even that I'm working in a writer's room right now and on the path and have representation I'm still very proud of myself, even though that's not where I thought I would be at this moment And I know it's coming.

So I just wanted to say that 

Camille: Good. Perfect. Thank you. Thank you. Yay. Yay. Yay. 

Tamera: How do you think it went? I thought it went great. Yay!

Camille: Thanks for tuning in to my conversation with Tamera. If you want to stay connected with her, you can find her social media accounts in the show notes.

I'll be taking a break next week, but the following week I'll be back with an episode on how to build a thoughtful network within the industry. See you then